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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#11
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
According to Bundesarchiv RL 2-II/389:
24 April: JV 44 operated twice against Marauders, claiming 2 B-26 and two Mustangs plus 3 B-26 probably destroyed. Losses: 2 missing (inc. Günther Lützow). 25 April: 7 Me 262 took off against heavy bombers in the Landshut area; 4 broke off the operation, 1 crashed, two recalled. 3 Me 262 flew a sweep round Augsburg and engaged Thunderbolts without success or loss. 3 Me 262 took off against Marauders over Landshut, engaged without success, 1 pilot injured. 26 April: 12 Me 262 against Marauders near Neuburg; claim 5 B-26, lose two Me 262. No more reports after that. |
#12
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
Thanks for all replies,
I would like to attach the victory list, but maybe I´m too old...it does not work with the symbols here. His disparity in official claims and own in this log begins very early: In his counting 5 by end of 1941 (against 0 official), 8 by end of 1942 (1 official), 15 by end of 1943 (5 official), 70 by the end of 1944 (20 official). In the end he counts 104 (26 official). It is strange, some accounts fit very well others (especially after 9.43 seem to be fiction). I will post his claims against VVS in the other section. |
#13
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
Hi Guys
Good bit of digging/research by you all. I'll try to establish the facts:- 8th March 1943 P-51 35km West of Walcheren Island 0733 hrs 50 metres, this is recorded as an abschußmeldung paper as the 3rd claim of von Kirchmayr. 2nd May 1943 Spitfire 1,5km North of Kortgene 1937 hrs 3500 metres, this is recorded as an abschußmeldung paper. 11th January 1944 B-17 4km SW Osterode 1130 hrs 6300 metres, this is recorded as an abschußmeldung paper as the 6th claim of von Kirchmayr. 8th March 1944 B-24 2km NW Luckau 1425 hrs, recorded on the mikrofilms 8th April 1944 B-24 SW Salzwebel 1351 hrs 7000 metres, recorded on the mikrofilms. 29th April 1944 P-47 Braunschweig area 1105 hrs 3500 metres, recorded as an abschußmeldung as the 15th claim of the shooter(Kirchmayr) without witness, not recorded on the mikrofilms......I suspect never confirmed. NOTE given later claim number than next two claims, because of continued investigation ? as the 16th claim of the shooter(Kirchmayr), NOT recorded on the mikrofilms. 13th May 1944 P-47 Lubecker Bight 1340 hrs 5500 metres, recorded as an abschußmeldung , also recorded on the mikrofilms. 28th May 1944 B-17 Madgeburg area 1408 hrs 7500 metres v.n.e-a.s.m, recorded as an abschußmeldung as the 18th claim of the shooter(Kirchmayr), also recorded on the mikrofilms. 20th July 1944 Spitfire West of St.Lo 1307 hrs 6000 metres, recorded on the mikrofilms. 20th July 1944 Spitfire NW of Alencon 1335 hrs 2000 metres(without witness a.s.m), recorded on the mikrofilms. 17th December 1944 P-38 North of Trier 1436 hrs 3000 metres, recorded on the mikrofilms. 23rd December 1944 B-26 Koblenz area 1037 hrs 3200 metres, recorded on the mikrofilms. 24th December 1944 P-38 North of Trier 1027 hrs 4000 metres, recorded on the mikrofilms. Note daily mikrofilm entries start 25th July 1943 and end 5th December 1944. Daily mikrpfilm entries for Stab.I./JG 11 start 17th April 1943 and end 24th December 1944 29th April 1944 B-24 NE Fallersleben 1310 hrs 5500 metres, this is recorded as an abschußmeldung as the 13th claim of the shooter(Kirchmayr), also recorded on the mikrofilms. 29th April 1944 B-17 Fallersleben 1312 hrs 5500 metres, recorded as as abschußmeldung as the 14th claim of the shooter(Kirckmayr), also recorded on the mikrofilms. 8th May 1944 B-24 NW of Celle airstrip 0950 hrs 6500 metres, recorded as an abschußmeldung NOTE:- Daily mikrofilm entries for 5./JG 1 start 26th July 1943, those for Stab.I./JG 11 end 24th December 1944. From von Kirchmayr's flugbuch(8th June 1942-14th July 1943):- 30th July 1942 Spitfire Den Haag area 1318-1438 hrs flight. 29th October 1942 Wellington 80km West of Den Haag 1623 hrs......1547-1650 hrs flight. 3rd May 1943 Ventura Den Haag area 1335-1358 hrs flight. 22nd June 1943 Spitfire West of Vlissengen 1032 hrs.....0950-1043 hrs flight. 9th July 1943 P-51 1150-1248 hrs flight. These five are not recorded on the daily mikrofilms as would have been recorded on the Staffel mikrofilm, which either has not survived, or is yet to be discovered. So these could very well be, or some well be legitimate. Kind regards Johannes P.S The 104 total could be based on the points system of the Western front ? But whatever something is surely amiss with this pilot. Does anybody have the abschuß tafel of 5./JG 1 or 4./JFS 5 ?, or possibly early KBT papers that could shed more light. |
#14
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
Hello Johannes, I sent you a PM.
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#15
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
His own counting started already on 20.9.41:
No.1 20.09.41 Spitfire NW Fecamp; YT (YouTube) on 21.9.41 at 17:27 4(Eins)/JFS-5 FB Nr.1 20.09.41 Spitfire; YT 21.9.41; second Spitfire hit 4(Eins)/JFS-5 FB Nr.2 About this day in his diary: JFS 5 intercepted a raid against Cherbourg with three Schwärme (=12 Bf.109s) led by Oblt. Zink leading, Oblt. Bohatsch (Obfw. Pfeiffer, Kirchmayr, Morgenweck) and Lt. Seller. Ofhr. Albert(-Rudolf) Morgenweck of the Bohatsch Schwarm was shot up and crash-landed in Bf.109E-7 Wnr.2678 (100% loss) riddled with hits, DOW. JFS 5 attacked from 8500m from above with over 800km/h, dispersing the big RAF Spitfire formation of about 50, then individual dogfights followed. Kirchmayr observed the loss of two planes (one to the right going down in spirals emitting black smoke, one more to the right burning). Kirchmayr evaded one attacking Spitfire by turning and saw another below that was flying a light left turn. He approached the unsuspecting Spitfire to 100m, then the enemy pilot saw him and tried to turn hard right, but he hit the Spitfire with a deflection shot in the fuselage and black smoke emitted from the engine. The Spitfire turned on it´s back and tumbled down burning into the clouds. Kirchmayr levelled out at 4800m. On the way back he was accompied by Albert at 7000m, he radioed „Schwalbe 7 Spit behind you“, Kichmayr evaded the burst by turning down, zooming up and hitting the Spitfire from 30 meters in the oil cooler. The Spitfire vanished with a white stream with his high speed, whilst Kirchmayr was followed by 3-5 more Spitfires. The attack by one Spitfire evaded Kirchmayr by turning hard left and then on the back into other direction into the clouds, then heading SE. When Kirchmayr landed at Octeville (near Le Havre) he noted, that he had taken three hits (maybe Bf.109E-7 Wnr.6511 emergency landing near Fecamp with 15% combat damage). One Uffz. Had been s/d (8./JG 26 lost Lt Dzialas to 20-30 Spitfires of 71, 111, 222 Squadron), one Fw. (Morgenweck) MIA. At18:35 a phone call from a coastwatcher of the Heer from Douville confirmed the dead of Morgenweck. This recounting sounds possible in terms of names given and location, but do we have evedince in sources of BA for JFS 5? On 20.9.41 JG 2 pilots claimed 13 successes over Spitfires between 16:36-17:05h (for the loss of 1 pilot, 1 a/c damaged), JG 26 claimed 7 Spitfires between 16:40-17:00h, JFS 5 3 victories (around 17:27). RAF Fighter Command lost 7 Spitfires on 20.9.41: Spitfire Vb W3179 (Sgt G.P. Hickman, POW) of 92 Sq. RAF FTR from Sweep (p.m.). Spitfire Vb AB962 (F/Lt L.S. Pilkington, KIA) of 111 Sq. RAF FTR from Circus 100 (p.m.). Spitfire Vb (Sgt D.G. Harwood, POW) of 111 Sq. RAF FTR from Circus 100 (p.m.). Spitfire Vb (Sgt I.A. L. Milne, POW) of 452 Sq. RAAF FTR from Circus 100B (p.m.). Spitfire Vb W3622 (Sgt C.J. Squibb, POW) of 602 Sq. RAAF FTR from Circus 100B (p.m.). Spitfire Vb P8787 (Sgt W.L: Brown, KIA) of 602 Sq. RAAF FTR from Circus 100B (p.m.). Spitfire V W3816 (F/Lt R.G.A. Barcley, DFC, evaded via Spain) of 611 Sq. RAF FTR from Circus 100B (p.m.); crash-landed in France after attack by Bf.109. |
#16
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
Thanks Nick, on 26.4.45 according to OKL operational summary aside 5 Marauders one Thunderbolt was s/d down by JV 44, but it has only 1 Me-262 (of 12) crashing, pilot baled out.
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#17
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
20/9/1941
The Cherbourg raid was Gudgeon 8 and did not suffer any losses Circus C-100 A went to Hazebrouck in the north - 3 lost Hornchurch 54, 603, 611; North Weald 71, 111, 222; 12 Group 266, 401, 411 Circus C-100 B went to Abbeville - 4 lost Biggin Hill 72, 92, 609, Debden 607, Kenley 452, 485, 602 Circus C-100 C went to Rouen - no losses Hornchurch 402, Northolt 306, 308, 315, Tangmere 41, 129, 616 The circus raids are all roughly concurrent Gudgeon 8 took off slightly after the circuses did Prien et al JFV = 4(Eins) JFS5 gives 12 claims (10 Spitfire and 2 Hurricanes) NW of Fecamp and in Rouen areas Therefore most likely the Abbeville Circus, but at 3/1 overclaim rate for them alone, working out who was successful or not is impossible 35 fighters are claimed by JFS5, JG2 and JG26 in total. 5/1 against it being Kirchmayr Martin |
#18
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
Fighter Command claimed 16-1-5 victories. From the times given it seems that JFS 5 fought against 308 Sq. RAF, which suffered no losses, but claimed 4 Bf.109s. Fécamp is located on the retreat route from Rouen, it seems that JFS 5 was sent against Circus 100C at the very end of the operation and the rookie pilots seriously overclaimed.
RAF 11 Group Circus 100A: Rail-yards HAZEBROUCK 15.40 Manston: RAF 2 Group 3 Blenheim IV Close-Escort Wing: RAF 11 Gp. 603 Sqn. 11 Spitfire Vb 14.45-16.25 Circus 100A 0 - 1 – 0 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Hazebrouck Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 603 Sqn. 0 - 1 - 0 Me 109F Hazebrouck RAF 11 Gp. 611 Sqn. 11 Spitfire Vb 14.55-16.36 Circus 100A 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109E 1 Cat.3m 1 Cat.2 L-BS: Hazebrouck Cat.3m 20.09.41 F/Lt. R.G.A. Barclay dfc: mia-e 11 Group 611 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: W3816 Event unknown Cat.2 20.09.41 Pilot: ok 11 Group 611 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: FY- Event unknown Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 603 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F Hazebrouck Escort-Cover Wing: RAF 11 Gp. 71 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.50-16.35 Circus 100A 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Hazebrouck Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 71 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F Hazebrouck RAF 11 Gp. 111 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.50-16.35 Circus 100A 1 - 0 - 3 Me 109F 2 Cat.3m Fighters L-BS: Hazebrouck Cat.3m 20.09.41 F/Lt. L.S. Pilkington: kia 11 Group 111 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: AB962 Event unknown Cat.3m 20.09.41 Sgt. D.G. Harwood: p/w 11 Group 111 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: JU- Event unknown Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 111 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: St. Omer Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 111 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F 15.40 ca: St. Omer Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 111 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F 15.40 ca: St. Omer Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 111 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F 15.40 ca: St. Omer Summary for Circus 100A on 20th September 1941 to Hazebrouck. Fighters taking part 9 squadrons, 106 sorties, 1-1-5 claimed for 3 lost. Bombers taking part 3 Blenheim IV of 2 Group. Ref: RAF/FC Summary of Sorties (Air 16/1307) RAF 11 Group Circus 100B: Rail-yards ABBEVILLE 15.41: RAF 5 Group 6 Hampden I Close-Escort Wing: Biggin Hill RAF 11 Gp. 92 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.49-16.24 Circus 100B 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109E 1 Cat.3m Fighters M-BS: Abbeville Cat.3m 20.09.41 Sgt. G.P. Hickman: p/w 11 Group 92 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: W3179 Event unknown Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 92 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F Abbeville Escort-Cover Wing: Kenley RAF 11 Gp. 452 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.50-16.20 Circus 100B 7 - 0 – 1 Me 109F 1 Cat.3m Fighters M-BS: Abbeville Cat.3m 20.09.41 Sgt. I.A.L. Milne: p/w 11 Group 452 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: UD- Event unknown Claim 20.09.41 S/Ldr. B.E.F. Finucane 11 Group 452 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.45 ca: 5 sm. N.W. Abbeville Claim 20.09.41 S/Ldr. B.E.F. Finucane 11 Group 452 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.45 ca: 5 sm. N.W. Abbeville Claim 20.09.41 S/Ldr. B.E.F. Finucane 11 Group 452 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.45 ca: 5 sm. N.W. Abbeville Claim 20.09.41 P/O K.W. Truscott 11 Group 452 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.45 ca: N. Abbeville Claim 20.09.41 P/O K.W. Truscott 11 Group 452 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.45 ca: off Somme Estuary Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 452 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.45 ca: Berck-Abbeville Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 452 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.45 ca: Berck-Abbeville Claim 20.09.41 P/O K.W. Truscott 11 Group 452 Sqn. 0 - 0 - 1 Me 109F 15.45 ca: off Somme Estuary RAF 11 Gp. 602 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.50-16.40 Circus 100B 0 - 0 - 0 n/a 2 Cat.3m Fighters M-BS: Abbeville Cat.3m 20.09.41 Sgt. C.J. Squibb: kia 11 Group 602 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: W3622 Event unknown Cat.3m 20.09.41 Sgt. W.L. Brown: kia 11 Group 602 Sqn. Spitfire Vb: P8787 Event unknown Summary for Circus 100B on 20th September 1941 to Abbeville. Fighters taking part 7 squadrons, 83 sorties, 7-1-1 claimed for 4 lost. Bombers taking part 6 Hampdens of 5 Group. Ref: RAF/FC Summary of Sorties (Air 16/1307) RAF 11 Group Circus 100C: Ship-yards ROUEN 15.49: RAF 2 Group 12 Blenheim IV Close-Escort Wing: Tangmere RAF 11 Gp. Leader 1 Spitfire Vb 14.58-16.40 Circus 100C ½- 0 - 0 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 W/Cdr. H.C.A. Woodhouse 11 Group Tangmere ½ - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen RAF 11 Gp. 41 Sqn. 11 Spitfire Vb 14.58-16.40 Circus 100C ½- 0 - 0 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 41 Sqn. ½ - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen RAF 11 Gp. 129 Sqn. 12 Spitfire Vb 14.55-16.40 Circus 100C 2 - 0 - 0 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 129 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 129 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen Escort-Cover Wing: Northolt RAF 11 Gp. 308 Sqn. 11 Spitfire Vb 15.00-17.25 Circus 100C 4 - 0 - 0 Me 109F No casualty L-BS: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 308 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 308 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 308 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen Claim 20.09.41 Pilot 11 Group 308 Sqn. 1 - 0 - 0 Me 109F 15.40 ca: Rouen |
#19
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
Hi
Is this more less verbatim transcript of the entry from 20 Sep 1941? I have had a look into combat reports for Circus 100C. Unfortunately, No 308 Sqn reports do not provide exact locations contrary to the RAF ones. Most of the aircraft claimed were Me 109F, only few identified as Me 109E but types were often confused in the heat of battle. Given that shot down aircraft are reported to either dive or spiral with black smoke, I assume that they may have been shared by a number of airmen or that some identified those losses as an effect of their fire. This would require further analysis. Anyway, it looks like at least one aircraft spun down or spiralled in the area of St Valery en Caux and this may have been Morgenweck as he reputedly survived but died of wounds more less at the same spot. Another aircraft is reported to dive in the area of St Valery, and I have no idea about its identity. This would be on par with Kirchmayr's account. Yet another aircraft was claimed over the Channel and chased at zero level until crashed on the ground near Fecamp - I guess this could be the 15% one. I see no obvious claim for Kirchmayr. There is an account of a Me 109 chasing an upturned and burning Spitfire which makes a surprising match. Anoher pilot attacked the Me 109, but did not notice results. No losses of Spitfires apart of one of No 308 Sqn damaged, and which seems not to match the account. Unless it was an aircraft from Circus 100B which somehow mingled in the combat, I cannot offer an explanation. Quite a typical mess that cannot be easily explained. Franek |
#20
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Re: Rüdiger von Kirchmayr
Hi Franek,
yes it is a more less verbatim transcript of the (audio) entry (without dictionary), that anyway should cover the most important parts. I do agree with everything you wrote, escpecially the last sentence. I could only add some infos I have on this day, first the german claims (Wood as I dont have the volume of the Prien series): 20. September 1941 R.A.F. 11 Group Circus 100: HAZEBROUCK, ABBEVILLE ROUEN 20.09.41 Oblt. Josef Puchinger Stab III./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.36 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.28 20.09.41 Ltn. Egon Mayer 7./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.38 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.44 20.09.41 Oblt. Rudolf Pflanz Stab/JG 2 Spitfire - 16.40 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.82 20.09.41 Fw. Erwin Liebold: 5 3./JG 26 Spitfire 5 -10 km. N.E. Flugpl. Clairmarais 16.40 Film C. 2036/IINr.88713/42 20.09.41 Ofw. Günther Seeger Stab/JG 2 Spitfire bei Somme-Mündung 16.41 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.83 20.09.41 Hptm. Hans Hahn Stab III./JG 2 Spitfire 10 km. S.W. Somme -Mündug 16.42 Film C. 2036/IIAner k: Nr.29 20.09.41 Ltn. Walter Höhler 7./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.42 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.45 20.09.41 Hptm. Hans Hahn Stab III./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.43 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.29 20.09.41 Obstlt. Adolf Galland: 84 Stab./JG 26 Spitfire Bergues-Bourbourg 16.45 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr. - 20.09.41 Hptm. Johannes Schmid: 32 8./JG 26 Spitfire - 16.45 Film C. 2036/IINr.69278/41 20.09.41 Hptm. Karl -Heinz Greisert Stab II./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.50 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.49 20.09.41 Oblt. Kurt Ebersberger: 13 4./JG 26 Spitfire Mardyck 16.52 Film C. 2036/IINr.88713/42 20.09.41 Fw. Horst -Benno Krüger Stab II./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.53 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.50 20.09.41 Ltn. Wolfgang Wehrhagen 4./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.55 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.95 20.09.4 1 Ltn. Erich Rudorffer 6./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.55 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.28 20.09.41 Uffz. Richard Übelbacher 6./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.55 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.35 20.09.41 Obstlt. Adolf Galland: 85 Stab./JG 26 Spitfire 6 km. N.W. Bray-Dunes 16.55 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr. - 20.09.41 Ltn. Hans-Georg Dippel: 4 2./JG 26 Spitfire 6 km. N. Wissant 16.55 Film C. 2036/IINr.88713/42 20.09.41 Oblt. Karl Borris: 8 6./JG 26 Spitfire Mardyck 16.57 Film C. 2036/IINr.88713/42 20.09.41 Uffz. Gottfried Dietze: 2 2./JG 26 Spitfire 6 -8 km. S.W. Calais 17.00 Film C. 2036/IINr.88713/42 20.09.41 Fw. Paul Marx 4./JG 2 Spitfire - 17.05 Film C. 2036/IIAnerk: Nr.96 20.09.41 Oblt. Rudolf Pflanz Stab/JG 2 Spitfire - 16.40 - - yes 20.09.41 Ofw. Günther Seeger Stab/JG 2 Spitfire Somme Estuary 16.41 - - yes 20.09.41 Hptm. Karl-Heinz Greisert II./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.50 - - yes 20.09.41 Fw. Horst-Benno Krüger 5./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.53 4 - yes 20.09.41 Lt. Wehrhagen 4./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.55 - - yes 20.09.41 Fw. Paul Marx 4./JG 2 Spitfire - 17.05 - - yes 20.09.41 Lt. Erich Rudorffer 6./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.55 - - yes 20.09.41 Uffz. Richard Übelbacher 6./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.55 - - yes 20.09.41 Hptm. Hans Hahn III./JG 2 Spitfire 10 km. off Somme Estuary 16.20 - - yes 20.09.41 Oblt. Josef Puchinger 9./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.36 - - yes 20.09.41 Hptm. Hans Hahn III./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.43 - - yes 20.09.41 Lt. Egon Mayer 7./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.38 25 - yes 20.09.41 Lt. Walter Höhler 7./JG 2 Spitfire - 16.42 - - yes 20.09.41 Einsatz-staffel JFS Nr. 5 Spitfire RA-4: off Fécamp - - - yes 20.09.41 Einsatz-staffel JFS Nr. 5 Spitfire RA-4: off Fécamp - - - yes 20.09.41 Einsatz-staffel JFS Nr. 5 Spitfire RA-4: off Fécamp - - - yes 20.09.41 Obstlt. Adolf Galland Stab./JG 26 Spitfire Bergues-Bourbourg 16.45 84 - yes 20.09.41 Obstlt. Adolf Galland Stab./JG 26 Spitfire 6 km. N.W. Bray-Dunes 16.55 85 - yes 20.09.41 Lt. Hans-Georg Dippel 2./JG 26 Spitfire 6 km. N. Wissant 16.55 4 - yes 20.09.41 Uffz. Dietze 2./JG 26 Spitfire 8 km. S.W. Calais 17.00 2 - yes 20.09.41 Fw. Erwin Liebold 3./JG 26 Spitfire 10 km. N.E. Clairmarais 16.40 5 - yes 20.09.41 Oblt. Kurt Ebersberger 4./JG 26 Spitfire Mardyck 16.52 13 6188713/42 20.09.41 Oblt. Karl Borris 6./JG 26 Spitfire Mardyck 16.57 8 5188713/42 20.09.41 Hptm. Johannes Schmid 8./JG 26 Spitfire unknown 16.45 32 - yes Claims 20.09.41 Mss. Goss JG 2, Caldwell JG 26, for JG 2 are estimated. Then also some info from Caldwell´s JG 26: According to that JG 26 concentrated against Circus No.100A and JG 2 against Circus 100B and C, he has JG 26 claiming 8 Spitfires (including Galland´s victories No.84-85 with confirmation unknown), JG 2 13 Spitfires and JFS 5 3 Spitfires. An interesting note is that of F/O Fraciszek Surma of 308 Sq. RAF after a long, inconclusive dogfight over the Channel with an experienced pilot on the mission: "From my experience on this Circus I have formed the opinion that the Me-109F is superior to the Spitfire V in both speed and climbing power. The German pilots´...tactics have changed as they did not attack from high above, but mostly on the same level" From this Caldwell draws the conclusion, that "the pilots of the Kanalgeschwader now had enough confidencein the Bf 109F to take on the Spitfires on the latter´s own terms." For this in general he is surely right, but maybe for the 20 September battle it could have been only the inexperience of the JFS 5 pilots to make them dogfight with the Spits...and the german pilot mentioned by Surma maybe was just a pilot fighting to survive. |
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