A P51 lost in February 1945 at La neuveville sous Montfort (Vosges Departmen=t

[Tony Kambic]

William D Bates FLOF AL 6 2 1945 P-51D # 44-13884 QP-V (no MACR, not in accident lists)
** Abort due to mechanical issues; bailed out over Channel. Expired
** before rescuers reached him.

Clarence Edward Mains 1L CA 12 2 1945
** Listed as Body not recovered, still MIA

Jerry R McDonald Capt TX 28 2 1945 P-51D
** Crashed after flak hit while stafing train, near Landshut, Germany

[gilles collaveri]

Hi Leendert

good question, I shall check with the people doing the research locally.

Tony,

thanks a lot, Your efforts are very much appreciated. I forward all this information to theses guys looking for this Mustang.

Happy Christmas to all !!

GC

[RSwank]

To help answer the question of whether or not the area was liberated in Feb 45, this link has a series of maps for WWII.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...tlefront_Atlas

The map for Feb 1, 1945 show the area as being liberated.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...frontAtlas.jpg

If you follow back through the maps, it would appear the area was liberated in late 1944.

The area seems to have had several AF landing grounds by February, so the plane that crashed may have been returning from a mission over Germany (and a MACR may or may not have been filed) or it could have been an accidental crash.

[Tony Kambic]

Gilles,

Confirmed that the image you posted (part 73-22002) is from a P-51 elevator. Could be a -B,C or D, but is from a fabric covered elevator. It is mid-way down the axis and the curved form metal is the front edge of the elevator.

Tony

[ssg keay]

Is this the same plane where the part is kept at the town hall of Laneuveville sous Montfort? If yes, then I was told that US troops recovered the dead pilot the following day and that would indicate that the Mustang came down in friendly lines and there should not be a MACR. Danny

[ssg keay]

Tony, McDonald actually crashed a few miles SE of Nuenrberg, not Landshut. That is where he was last seen, but he was shot down by AA fire while chasing a German fighter. Same AA fire also shot down the German. I have been to his crash-site and red painted nose cowling parts were recovered.
To the Mustang in question, if the local priest did not list his name in the cemetery book, then IDing the pilot might become a near impossibility without a MACR.
Danny

[Stephane Muret]

Yes you're right Leendert, off course the area was liberated at this date and so there is probably no Macr, perhaps AR but not sure. This could be a hard file because there are no papers about it. First, local people must try to find more about the date ... This means to find eye-witnesses and ask ... Look on the local books written too ...
Perhaps some parts found could help to identify recce or fighter plane ...

Well lot of searches to do ... In the Vosges !

Stephane

[gilles collaveri]

True Stéphane, a lot of work to do, on site, to gather information.

And this should be done as soon as possible: witnesses are getting older and older, and are less and less....

Thanks to you all for your inputs.

Gilles

[Stephane Muret]

Gilles,

In each searches i've made on east of France, i could find some informations in local history books. I hope your friends living there could find some. Most of the time, local historians have informations to share (off course, only when they are ready to share ... wich is sometimes difficult ...).

Good luck
Stef

[gilles collaveri]

Thanks Stéphane (and the others) for your tips,

My friends are currently searching and if they find something tangible, I'll let you know.

All best.

Gilles