Twelve O'clock High!

[Maximowitz]

Originally Posted by Ruy Horta

....which I find almost as hard to stomach as the current "docu-kitch" produced by Discovery and History, which is based on a lot of reenactment and little (quality) narrative.

You are not alone in hating that particular theatrical device Ruy. A pox on it, "history-lite" for those with short attention spans..

[Carl Schwamberger]

For several decades this movie was used as a training film for officers by the USMC. After OCS the newly commissioned 2d Lts go through a 5-6 month Basic School before they go on to their specialty training as pilots, infantry leaders, tanks or whatever. As part of the leadership training we watched the movie, then had to analyze it for the roles the key officers in the film played and their mistakes. I still recall clearly some of the lessons in that instruction segment. There was a suprising ammount of good instructional material drawn out of the story about leadership techniques.

I found years later that after I'd read a lot about the US regular army officers in the 1920s & 1930s I understood the unwritten backstory behind the senior officers, the generals, colonels, & Lt colonels in the story. When you understand their background you grasp better the difficult task they had in turning a vast pool of reservists, volunteers, and draftees into a real combat force in barely four years.

[Mark E Horan]

How can you beat the classic scene after so many of the ground echelon, having qualified as aircrew in secret, sneaked aboard several of the Groups aircraft and General Savage (Peck) found out and cornered Stovall (Dean Jagger:


Savage: "Ya hit anything up there Harvey?"

Stovall: "Well sir, my glasses were frosted over some, but I think I got a piece of one."

Savage: "Ours, or theirs?"

[Carl Schwamberger]

Originally Posted by Mark E Horan

How can you beat the classic scene after so many of the ground echelon, having qualified as aircrew in secret, sneaked aboard several of the Groups aircraft and General Savage (Peck) found out and cornered Stovall (Dean Jagger:


Savage: "Ya hit anything up there Harvey?"

Stovall: "Well sir, my glasses were frosted over some, but I think I got a piece of one."

Savage: "Ours, or theirs?"

Major Stovall's best line was "I've never heard of a jury convicting the lawyer." A cute joke there, but underlying it & the scene was the fact that a commander cant excuse himself from a mistake due to bad advice from subordinates. Both Savage & Stovall understand there that if Major Stovall is wrong it will be Brigadier Savage that pays for it.

[Nokose]

I saw this movie but it was way after the TV show that was inspired by it. The show ran from 1964-67 (3 seasons). It starred Paul Burke as Colonel Joe Gallagher the CO of the 918th BG. I remember one episode of a B-17 commander who was out for revenge for a certain area of Flak going to a target for the destruction of his friends. In the show he broke formation and bombed it. It seems there was in reality a island covered with flak batteries in the war that the Allies did bomb.

[Carl Schwamberger]

Originally Posted by Nokose

I saw this movie but it was way after the TV show that was inspired by it. The show ran from 1964-67 (3 seasons). It starred Paul Burke as Colonel Joe Gallagher the CO of the 918th BG. I remember one episode of a B-17 commander who was out for revenge for a certain area of Flak going to a target for the destruction of his friends. In the show he broke formation and bombed it. It seems there was in reality a island covered with flak batteries in the war that the Allies did bomb.

Revenge or off the cuff bombing of anti aircraft artillery positions was not uncommon. I've read description of USN dive bomber pilots diverting against the AAA positions after the leading aircraft hit the planned target. In another case A group of B26 bombers in 1945 had a bridge as the primary target, the leading squadron dropped the bridge instantly & the group commander radioed for the following squadrons to hold their bombs & attack the alternative target. Enroute to the other bridge the leading squadron took heavy losses from a cluster of German FLAK guns. The squadron leaders plane went down along with several others. The trailing squadron commander narrating this saw the leading survivors release their bombs, & miss the target, their pattern precisely covering a FLAK battery just beyond the bridge. For a bomber group of their experience missing a bridge by 1000 meters was unheard of & the narrator thought it clearly intentional.

[Nokose]

Yes, but I think the point that was being made in this episode was the mental state of obssession by this one pilot because of this area. Along with the fact that he broke formation to do it (basically 1943 before deep escorts). Oh, the pilot character in question got shot down afterwards by flak I seem to remember. I was 11 at the time the show was on the air .

[Mysticpuma]

I managed to find a low-quality clip showing the amazing crash at the start of the film....just incredible and when you think now, about "Health and Safety"......Blimey!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tieZKOnvVeY

Cheers, MP