Problematical JG77 pilots X five

[DB601E]

Hi John and Johannes,

i checked my sources and i found "my" Rössner:
Rössner, Ernst,
Obergefreiter, Flugzeugführer, 2./JGr.Süd,
+ 01.09.1944, Flugplatz Neuruppin Absturz. FW 190 A-4,

Finally i will add "Ludwig Rössner" to my list of JGr. Süd

Best regards

Lino

[Nikita Egorov]

Michael,

This story is pure fiction. By the time of Schulte emergency landing on Soviet held territory, Avdeev had been already dead for several hours, shot down by Alfred Kienath.

Originally Posted by Nokose

Johannes, Since your on JG77 what do you have on the fate of Fw Franz Schulte 6./JG77 who went missing on the 12Aug42. According to what I read in one Russian account he went head to head in a dogfight with Kapitan Aleksandr Fedorovich Avdeev's (HSU and 5 +1 victory ace) Airacobra from the 153 IAP. The P-39 collided with the Bf 109 killing Avdeev but Schulte's was last seen parachuting to the ground. Shulte's last victory was recorded as a LaGG-3. In the story that I believe I read on www.airforce.ru some years back it stated that Schulte's deliberately rammed the P-39 (unusual for a change unless he was already wounded). In Mikhail Bykov's book on Soviet Aces he stated the story did not have standing in VVS documents but was by the Soviet press. Avdeev's last victory was a Bf 109 on the 04Jul42 north of Vyaznovatka and was listed as killed on the 12Aug42 ("Did not return from combat mission").

[Johannes]

Hi Nikita

I was just about to start on JG54 queries, but as you asked. I have Oberfeldwebel Franz Schulte claiming a LaGG-3 about 20km East of Vorenezh at 1240 hrs at an altitude of 800 metres whilst with 6./Jg77. He then force-landed his Bf109 6km North-North-East of Priwalowka(sorry don't know the distance between the two) this was his forty-first confirmed claim(three more u/c) If indeed he force-landed sortly after(during the same sortie as his claim) then somebody else completed the paperwork for his claim, on his behalf!

Kind Regards

Johannes

[Matti Salonen]

I have for Schulte:
1942-08-12, 6./JG 77, Bf 109F-4, 13162, 16 gelbe, 6 km nordnordöstlich Priwalowka (Pl.Qu. 92 224), Bauchlandung jenseits nach Luftkampf. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Fw Schulte, Franz, vermißt

Maybe POW, can anybody confirm?

Matti

[Nokose]

It seems that the author (it was in Russian) believed the story enough to write it out. I believe now it might have been in the discussion section rather then the main story section as it seems like the air force would have did more checking before posting. Nikita, do you have who might have brought him down in that dogfight?

[Nikita Egorov]

It seems that it was promising to tight Avdeev to Schulte and create interesting story. Both were aces, clashed with each other and died in air ramming. Sounds thrilling indeed.

Matti,

Schulte was surely captured, but it is impossible to trace him in captivity. I presume he was killed instantly after landing or on the way to headquarters

[Nokose]

After reading the above I looked up Uffz Alfred Keinath of 4./JG77 and there isn't much on "Kracker" except his victories and that he recieved the EK 1 &2 and the fighter operational clasp. I found the following in JFV 9/III.
03Aug42 Bf 109F-4 ws. 13+-, Fahrwerksschaden, Kastornoje unter 5%
12Aug42 Bf 109F-4 werk. 13 188 ws. 11+-, Luftkampf, Bauchlandung, 10 km W of Semljansk, 20%
16Aug42 Bf 109F-4 wek. 7028 ws. 4+- Luftkampf, Notlandung, 1 km S. of Latnaja
Victories in Russia
(1) LaGG 3 27Jul42 11:41
(2) LaGG 3 9Aug42 18:50 PlQu 92324
(3) Airacobra 12Aug42 07:19 PlQu 92324 (Kapt Aleksandr Fedorovich Avdeev 153 IAP 5+1 victories and HSU: KIA)
(4) Il-2 13Sep42 PlQu 92593
(5) Hurricane 13Sep42 10:25 PlQu 92654
(6) Il-2 15Sep42 10:32 PlQu 92211
Following unconfirmed
15Sep42 two LaGG 3
16Sep42 LaGG-3
I don't have any of the books of JFV 11 so I don't know what happen to him in Africa and what he claimed.

[Ota Jirovec]

Michael,

Uffz. Alfred Keinath added two USAAF Airacobras to his tally on 13 March 1943. On 26 March 1943, still flying with 4./JG 77, he was wounded and had to bale out of his Bf 109 G-6 WNr. 16421, white 5, after an aerial combat with Spitfires south of El Hamma. I am not sure whether he has returned to combat flying after his recovery.

Hope this helps a little,

Ota

[Nokose]

Thanks Ota, Do you know what USAAF Airacobra unit it was on the 13Mar43? I read that there was a 3rd Airacobra on the 13Mar43 but it was not confirmed. It also has him listed on "Kracker" in 2./Ful. Ub.F.Gr.-1 but doesn't say when.

[Andrew Arthy]

Hi,

Just noticed this old thread while looking for something else. Alfred Keinath never flew in combat again, but he did resume flying with 2./Fl.Ü.Gr. 1 on 3 August 1944, and up to 6 March 1945 flew the Bf 109 G-8, G-14, K-4, and the FW 190.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com