Luftwaffe unit emblems - "Battle of Britain" era

[F19Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Christian Schulz

Thx everyone for the input. I'll adjust my "instructions" for the programmers accordingly. And to show what this inquiry is about ...

Coming in late on this thread I however start with your first badge, which I suppose is the one you have on top among the three posted here:

a) 1./JG 26

Axel Urbanke wrote an interesting article in "Luftwaffe im Focus - Edition6/2004, page 32-33, based on a port side photo of "White 6" of 1./JG 26, taken after a belly landing in France clearly showing the emblem under the cockpit.

The photo shows that it is not an eagle as published in several books but rather a mythological winged animal reminding of a Bavarian "Wolperdinger" which is a mythical creature of which the origins is a mystery according to Urbanke. (The head somewhat reminding of a combination of a lynx and an owl in my opinion.)

Urbanke further dismisses Caldwells claims in "The JG 26 War Diary" that the emblem was not introduced until September 1940 by Oblt. Henricki as the photo in the article shows a Bf 109 E-1 with pre-BoB camouflage and markings, believing it was taken latest mid-August - before Oblt. Henricki joined the unit. Photos confirm the use of the emblem until at least September 1941 according to Urbanke.

I find that the photos in the article confirms Urbankes description of the emblem, which is also represented with a drawing.

No comment on starboard side usage in the article.



I hope Mr Axel Urbanke excuses me for posting the "artists impression" from the article depicting the emblem on the aircraft in question. If not - I will delete it.

Adding a photo from eBay sales some time ago showing the emblem very similar to the emblem on the Bf 109 published in Luftwaffe im Focus Ed.6/2004, which photo however is sharper than this photo:

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Unfortunately, I have not time to post a photo of the eagle insignia, as I leave for Europe on a three-week research trip in just a few hours and am intensely busy getting ready.

The most important comment is that the "eagle" emblem that you have posted is incorrect. Forget all the Urbanke "Luftwaffe im Focus" posts: they are wrong. The eagle's head is bent down to the side, and this has led to Urbanke's incorrect interpretation of what it looks like. Others that watch this board can confirm this. An original lapel pin of this has been located, and the correct position and shape of the head is known. This IS an eagle. Yes, the photo of "White 2," is another example of the use of this emblem. I don't have time to write a long explanation, but this insignia was used during the French Campaign, with two of my photo examples dating to that period and it does appear on 1 Staffel aircraft from that period, including Henrici's aircraft, "White 13."

That's all I have time for at the moment.

Regards,

[Jochen Prien]

Dear John Vasco,
gentlemen,

just to avoid a misunderstanding - in JFV 4/II we did not state that the emblem shown on page 425 was actually applied to the a/c of 3./210 during the time covered in that volume; based on photos of vehicles of the Staffel which still carried the emblem of the former 4. (T)/186 and which were taken during the BoB period in France, we included the emblem emphasising at the same time that the use on a/c is as yet not proven.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[John Vasco]

Jochen,

I was only going on what Hintze and Emmerich told me during my research into 210 regarding the lack of an emblem on 3. Staffel aircraft.

I take your point about the emblem not being applied to aircraft, but on looking at that last page in Teil 4/II, I think (I may be wrong here) all the other emblems were carried on aircraft. I can fully understand that 4./186 would take their ground personnel with them on being re-designated 3./210, and moving to Denain. It would make no sense to strip them of the complete back-up team and re-constitute a new one at Denain. Thanks for adding that information.

My best to you Jochen (and give that Hickey guy a hard time if you are meeting him on the European trip!)

John V.

[Jochen Prien]

John,

thanks, and as for that Hickey guy - yes, I will try my best.


Cheers

Jochen

[sidney]

Gladiator,

I do not know where Mr. Urbanke got his references from, but... it should be fairly obvious that the 1./JG 26 emblem (later) motif represents a bird, and not a mythical creature from the Bavarian Alps.

The wings are that of an eagle, while the birds head might be open for interpretation in the absence of a close-up photo.

In my personal opinion, the bird's head does not look like an eagle's head.

Best Regards,
Sidney

[F19Gladiator]

I find the 1./JG 26 emblem discussion interesting.

I would not discard Mr. Axel Urbanke’s article as easy as Larry Hickey suggests. If having good photos of the emblem available it would be interesting to see them posted here, Larry!
A picture of the lapel-pin would also be interesting to see.

Sidney, I am also posting the part of the photo of “White 6” showing the “Eagle-emblem” as published in Mr. Urbanke’s article. The artist’s impression reproduction of the emblem in the article I refer to and posted earlier, is obviously based on this photo. What other references Mr. Urbanke has used is not mentioned in the article, neither his source of the Bavarian “Wolperdinger” theory. We better invite Axel to explain by himself!

Some Wolperdinger or Wolpertinger background here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolpertinger

The mythical creature can obviously show a lot of variation which is obvious after some minutes of “Googling”!

Part of photo from Mr. Urbanke’s article showing the emblem:


Part of previously posted photo of “White 2” and the emblem:


Studying this photo and the photo from eBay I have posted does in my opinion not represent a typical eagle. The proportions are strange and in particular the body part shows no resemblance with an eagle in both the posted examples. There are many examples of eagles used in unit emblems and heraldry since at least the days of the Roman Empire – But this emblem does not immediately switch on the “Eagle recognition mode” in my brain, despite having been very close to real live eagles several times in nature.

Before discarding the theory presented in Mr. Urbanke’s article it would be interesting to see more photos. Anyone?

I was initially only quoting from Mr. Urbankes article and I am not defending the “Wolperdinger” theory in absurdum here. It would however be interesting to dig a bit deeper, as the two photos I have posted here indicates that an alternative interpretation could find some support by the fact that neither of them are particularly good representations of an eagle.

Being a “Wolperdinger” inspired emblem or not, in my eyes it is not a typical eagle, and if it is intended to represent an eagle it would be interesting to know what had inspired to this strange variant.

Br/Gladiator

[Christian Schulz]

Artist's leeway ... That's what I'd call it.

[robert]

Hi,

I also saw the photos from Larry collections and I can support his opinion. For me the emblem on the white 6 is just unfinished. Nothing more as eagle without head.

Regards

Robert

[F19Gladiator]

Originally Posted by robert

Hi,

I also saw the photos from Larry collections and I can support his opinion. For me the emblem on the white 6 is just unfinished. Nothing more as eagle without head.

Regards

Robert

Thank you Robert!
It would be good to see more photos. They are not exactly common in publications.

I contemplated on if the emblem paint could have been abrased by wear and details lost, alternatively not fully completed. The bird wings seem to have been painted with the help of a stencil, but the details and body/head might have been added by free hand painting?
The painted area where the body and head should be still looks out of proportions to me.....

Still, if there is a good photo of the "eagle" in mint condition it would be nice to see........