History of Fw 190 G-3 160896

[Seaplanes]

Sorry for not having the history of W.Nr. 160896, but I can confirm that W.Nr. 160866 was a FW 190 G-3 produced by Focke-Wulf Marienburg and delivered 28.12.1943 with St.kz. PE+QJ.

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hello Seaplanes,

Thanks for the confirmation and the StKz! Would it be possible to find out the StKz of 160896 if PE+QJ for 160866 is known? I don't know the system how the StKz were given, but since these aircraft are only 30 apart, it might be possible.

I have seen some sources speaking about StKz of Fw 190 G-3 rather than WkNr. So, having the StKz might help to find out more about 160896.

Kind regards
Roger Gaemperle

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Roger Gaemperle

Is there a good book about I./S.K.G. 10, III./K.G. 51 and/or N.S.Gr. 20?

Kind regards
Roger

I gave them brief coverage in Kampfflieger Vol. 4 and Schlachtflieger (both in the Classic Colours series).

There was a book many years ago by a veteran of the unit (in German) but I can't remember the details (maybe "Nachts zwischen Wolken und Sternen").

[Nick Beale]

According to ULTRA, Werk Nummer 160834 made an emergency landing at Vicenza, Italy on 21 January 1944 (65% damaged). It belonged to II./SG 4.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi

FW 190F-3 WNr 160876 was destroyed near Grove, Denmark in February 1945 according to this loss record:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=101988

Regards,
Andreas B

[RT]

160896, was flown in Aug. 1944 by Erst. SKG10 then by III.KG51, on 13.okt 1944 he was radiated of the "role" of the Ausb.III.KG51 that means transfered or destroyed

Remi

[Nick Beale]

This is the paragraph from page 34 of Ultra CX/MSS/R.343 (A)

[Roger Gaemperle]

Hello,

Based on the ULTRA reports that you provided I did a further search for information and ended up with more questions than answers:

1) Remi you stated "Ausb. III./KG51": based on the scan of the corresponding ULTRA report that Nick posted, I don't see the reason why you think it was the Ausb.(ildung) Staffel. That leads me to the 2) question:

2) In the ULTRA report, what does KADOP and R/T Staffel mean? R/T is probably radio telegraphy? Was the (Night) III./KG 51 the Ergänzungsstaffel(Nacht)/SKG 10 (see also question 5)?

3) Nick, would it be possible to post a scan of the first ULTRA report that mentioned W.Nr. 160986? Does this report specifically say Erst. SKG 10?

4) I tried to find the Ergänzungsstaffel SKG 10 at www.ww2.dk and found two different units with overlapping time (does this make sense?):

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/schlacht/bergskg10.html

5) Is Ausb.III./KG 51 and Ergänzungsstaffel(Nacht)/SKG 10 one and the same unit? If so, it is interesting to note that in October 1944 4 Fw 190 G-3 left the unit. They are indicated as 'moved to other units'. Hence, W.Nr. 160896 was not damaged or destroyed but went to another unit (would be interesting to know to which one Does somebody know what the source for the Bestandesmeldungen at www.ww2.dk are and how reliable they are?

Regards,
Roger

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Roger Gaemperle

Hello,

Based on the ULTRA reports that you provided I did a further search for information and ended up with more questions than answers:

Regards,
Roger

1) Remi you stated "Ausb. III./KG51": based on the scan of the corresponding ULTRA report that Nick posted, I don't see the reason why you think it was the Ausb.(ildung) Staffel. That leads me to the 2) question:

I'll leave question 1) to Remi.

2) In the ULTRA report, what does KADOP and R/T Staffel mean? R/T is probably radio telegraphy? Was the (Night) III./KG 51 the Ergänzungsstaffel(Nacht)/SKG 10 (see also question 5)?

KADOP is German code — read the ULTRA article on my website.

KABEK = KG; KABUS = I./KG; KADIK = II./KG; KADOP = III./KG; KAFAN = IV./KG
KEBAD = 1./KG; KEBUT = 2./KG; KEDAC = 3./KG KEDNI = 4./KG; KEFUO = 5./KG; KEGIA = 6./KG; KEKOD = 7./KG; KELAP = 8./KG; KELOA = 9./KG

R/T in this context = Replacement./Training, i.e. «Ergänzung»

3) Nick, would it be possible to post a scan of the first ULTRA report that mentioned W.Nr. 160986? Does this report specifically say Erst. SKG 10?

No, I haven't got it.

4) I tried to find the Ergänzungsstaffel SKG 10 at www.ww2.dk and found two different units with overlapping time (does this make sense?):

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/schlacht/bergskg10.html

5) Is Ausb.III./KG 51 and Ergänzungsstaffel(Nacht)/SKG 10 one and the same unit?

I don't if there was ever such a thing as "Ausb.III./KG 51."
However, I./SKG 10 became III./KG 51 in June 1944, all the elements of the one were renamed as elements of the other.

> If so, it is interesting to note that in October 1944 4 Fw 190 G-3 left the unit. They are indicated as 'moved to other units'.

It always says that when a unit is redesignated — officially it ceases to exist and a new one is created, even if nothing changed but the name.

> Does somebody know what the source for the Bestandesmeldungen at www.ww2.dk are and how reliable they are?

They are all at the Bundesarchiv-Miltärarchiv in Freiburg. They are as reliable as any other official material from the time, i.e. they reflect the figures that were reported at a particular date and time. A day (or an hour) earlier or later the figures might change; a mistake might be made by whoever made the report.

[Frans A]

Originally Posted by Roger Gaemperle

Hello,

I have found another WkNr which is close to the one I am looking for:

WkNr 160831 Fw 190 G-3 Uffz Streletzki 1./SKG10 killed on 6 June 1944 at La-Neuve-Lyre/Conches.

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

According to volksbund.de Uffz. Streletzki was KIA on 11-06-1944

Frans.A