RAF or French aircraft id

[robert]

Hi,

I think this could be Martin 167F bomber no.61 white 1 from the GBI/63 brought down by biritish AAA on the 24.05.1940 between 17-18.00. It crashed in Lezennes. Two KIA and one EPJ.

Regards

Robert

[Graham Boak]

The number is the individual aircraft number in the unit. Given the limited use of this type in May/June 1940, it should be possible to identify the unit. I think the only operational units were GBI/62, GBII/62 and GBI/63.

However, the French magazine Aerojournal did two specials on French AF bombers in WW2: in the first there is another photo of this crash. It is aircraft 1 of GB I/63, Martin 167F no. 61, flown by Capitaine Wautrin, one of two (the other was no.38) shot down by British AA(!) at the airfield Lille-Lesquin. The gunner of this aircraft, sergent-chef le Gall, was the only survivor of the five airmen on the two bombers.

[CJE]

Correct.

Chris

[Johnnie]

Thank you so much for the information. I wasn't sure if anybody
would be able to identify the aircraft shown.

Does anybody have the full crew listing? Are there any photos
of the crew (or anything else relating to the story) about?

Johnnie

[Graham Boak]

Pilot: sergent-chef Grisoni
Chef-de-bord: capitaine Wautrin (commander of the 2nd escadrille)
Mittrailleur: sergent-chef Le Gall

and of the other aircraft:
Pilot (presumed): sous-leutnant Maury
Mittrailleur: sergent-chef Eauclere

Chris: you ought to agree - I'm quoting from your book!

[Johnnie]

Thanks for that. Can I ask, what is Chef-de0bord?

Was the aircraft on a bombing raid when it was shot down
(oh and what is the book from which the information is taken).

Johnnie

[Graham Boak]

Having just said that, it occurred to me that I'm currently reading Peter Cornwell's new Then And Now: The Battle of France. Looking forward to May 24, there is a little more information.

no.61 crashed, on fire, at Lezennes (as said above) at 5pm, during transport flight.
Captain J.Watrin
Sgt L.Grisonni
Sgt Le Gall (baled out)

No 38 crashed and burnt out at Gamand-Fretin, south of Lille-Rochin airfield, 5pm, on a transport flight between Le Bourget and Lille.
S/lt F.Maury
Sgt G.Eauclere
Sgt G.Montois

French AF data in this book is credited to Paul and Jacqueline Martin's Ils Etaient La....

please excuse my lack of appropriate accents.

Johnnie: you caught me out between posts. The original reference is Aerojournal Hors-Serie 5: Le Bombardement Francais, Tome 1, 1939/1940. Published Juin 2003:I doubt your chances of finding one.

Chef-de-bord is the commander on the aircraft. Like the German Air Force, the pilot of a bomber was often only the driver, and the aircraft commander had one of the more important roles - usually navigator or bomb-aimer.

[Johnnie]

Thanks for all of the information. I didn't realise that Peter's book
covered French losses (however I still haven't viewed a copy close up!).

Does his book mention where the crew are buried. I don't suppose
there are any photos of the crew surviving.

Johnnie

[Leendert]

Johnnie,

Without a date or location, it may be hard to track down this case.

It seems that two French Martin 167's were claimed late at night of 6 June 1940 near Roye (Somme), France by 2./JG2.

French Groupes that had Martins in 1940 were GB 62 and GB 63.

Perhaps someone who already has Peter Cornwell's new book "Battle of France: Then and Now " in possession may have more news on this?

Regards,

Leendert

[robert]

Hi,

GBI/62 - No.75 damaged and No.25 shot down - there was a photo on E-Bay showing probably as this plane went down in flames taken from the ground by German soldiers.

Robert