New Bf109K-4 pictures

[Kutscha]

Interesting photos, thanks.

Can anyone make out what the text is on the fuel decal on the IV./JG 53 K-4?

[harrison987]

HI Klemchen!

The mutterkompass was moved back in the G-series to make room for the MW50 tank ...but...they continued to make that fuselage section with the round hatch. The K parts list still shows this hatch as being present, so most likely it would represent and early Me109K...before the standardized removal of this hatch.

Originally Posted by klemchen

Hello,

the K-4 on the first picture is quite exceptional in having the round hatch above the footstep in fuselage section 2. On the G this hatch provided access to the main compass, but on that was moved on the K further backward into fuselage section 6, so the hatch in section 2 could be omitted.
Another feature specific to the K seems probably weakly discernible on the fuselage in the background of the third picture: On the F and G there was a large trapezoidal hatch with rounded corners on the starboard bottom of fuselage section 2. This was replaced on the K by a smaller circular hatch. The slightly darker round spot at the rear of bottom of section 2 might well be that hatch.

Regards,
klemchen

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by SMF144

In the last picture - what about the thick wavey horizontal line that can been seen on five of the fuselages? Most interesting.

Hello all,

Yes most interesting... We can see this thick wavey line on the following picture, taken on following site:

http://www.luchtoorlog.be/me109g_f3.htm

... But still no explaination.

Regards,

Franck.

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Klemchen and harrisson 987,

thanks for the insight in the finer points of accesss hatches locations in the late G and early K fuselages, it is appreciated.

SMF 144,

Any other sources supporting that "Chevron 5" was one of the machines flown by Barkhorn? Any Wnr known?

As to the location of the Bf 109 K-4 fuselages dumped, Etraro over on LEMB suggested Wertheim as he located another picture of the same dump in the just released LO+ST book (GI photos of Luftwaffe planes, see the link here: http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...showtopic=8421) compiled by Hideki Noro.

SMF 144 and Ouidjat,

Yes, very interesting indeed this wavy RLM 76 line above the wing junction line; Thomas Poruba and Kees Mol do point out that the Bf 109 K-4's found in Wertheim have this special camouflage pattern, differing from all other known productions runs (Poruba and Mol 2000, p. 40, with two photos).

Thanks to all for your inputs.
Cheers
Marc

[Dan O'Connell]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

Hello all,

Yes most interesting... We can see this thick wavey line on the following picture, taken on following site:

http://www.luchtoorlog.be/me109g_f3.htm

... But still no explaination.

Regards,

Franck.

That wavey line indicates IV/Gruppe

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by Dan O'Connell

That wavey line indicates IV/Gruppe

Hi Dan,

Thanks btw for your precision concerning the Me 262 of KGj 54.

As for the wavy line, I understand a wavy streak of RLM 76 which partly covers the ,ower edge of the RLM 81 RLM 83 segment camouflage, as shown on those unfinished fuselages dumped probably at Wertheim, as this unique camouflage mode is so far only documented on Bf109K-4's found at Wertheim (Poruba and Mol 2000, p. 40).

Cheers
Marc

[RolandF]

Hi Marc,

concerning the Me 262 with meander camo - on p.29 of EF5: Stormbird colours you can find two photographs of W.Nr.110506 stored on a wagon in disassembled condition.

IMO the camo of the Bf109K-4 fuselages is not as special as it may seem.

On this picture you can see the regular late-war fuselage camo according to the Os (Oberflächenschutzliste) for the last 109s:
http://www.luchtoorlog.be/img/me109g/monta.jpg
The photo was taken in front of the western production hall of Mtt´s production site at KZ Flossenbürg, Northern Bavaria. The fuselages are complete with tail unit, cockpit equipment and engine unit ready to be transported down the road to Flossenbürg railway station where the complete wing units from Altenhammer joined the fuselages. Then the seperate parts were transported on rail to Vilseck, where the final assembly and painting took place. Here you can see the "classical" camo with RLM 81 and 83 at the sides, the darker shade painted down to the lower fuselage edge to serve as background behind the white simplified Balkenkreuz. The other paint areas show a rather higher borderline and form that typical zig-zag line characteristic for this camo system (those K-4s with the freehand-painted three-digit W.Nr., you remember?). The lower fuselage here is obviously completely painted in the bright greenish RLM 76 variation. Btw, the parts lying beside the completed fuselages are identical to the ones you are showing. Anybody knows where they belong to?
The fuselages on the scrap pile are in pre-assembled and pre-painted condition (some even without dark camo), but the camo is essentially the same concerning the RLM 81 and 83 areas. The irregular RLM 76 spray seems to equalize the lower camo edge and raises the division line between dark and bright. This is made intentionally because you can also see a soft spray of RLM 76 covering the areas left and right of the Balkenkreuz.
This makes sense for me only in case the painting of the lower fuselage in RLM was abolished to save material and manhours - not an uncommon situation during the last war days. The fuselage bottoms appear to be left in bare aluminum. Maybe Erla followed this instruction by painting the fuselage sides down to the lower edge of the Balkenkreuz - those fuselages were fabricated the other way IMO.

The caption of the photographs is said to be Grafenwöhr (Vilseck like nowadays being situated at the southern border of the Grafenwöhr training ground) - the railway visible in the background may lead to KZ Flossenbürg?

On the other hand - how certain is the caption "Wertheim" for this other fuselages? Vilseck-Heringnohe (the exact designation) is partially surrounded by woods and the US armies approached from the west - maybe a wrong memory?

Regards

Roland

Edit: The striking railway with a train on it appears on all photographs. Seem to be taken at the same site?

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Dear Roland,

Thanks for your highly appreciated comment. This leaves now both places open: Wertheim as Vilseck-Heringnohe have the same hilly surrounding... I will check out all indicated pics once at home in order to get a clearer picture.

As a side note, Poruba and Mol did analyze this ultimate camouflage variation for them only to be seen on the Bf109K-4's found at Wertheim, as stated on the captions of the photographs they used in their book. Those Bf 109K-4's dispersed under cover of a forest are btw well known pics which were published - for the first time? - in Thomas Hitchcock's 109 Gallery way back in 1973, the first book which addressed the late Bf 109 version in a systematic way.

Cheers
Marc

[RolandF]

Hallo Marc,

I´d like to agree with you that the "Grafenwöhr" and the "Wertheim" pictures show the same camouflage. But I´ve never read about Bf 109 assembly lines at Grafenwöhr or Wertheim, at least Grafenwöhr certainly didn´t have neither an airfield nor plane production. The Luftwaffe airfield next to Grafenwöhr is Vilseck - Heringnohe and here the G-6, the G-14 and the K-4 were completed:
http://home.arcor-online.de/alois.la...te/vilseck.htm
The airfield is in the background; the bent road crossing the photo from right bottom towards the runway marks the former railway supply tracks.

Anyway, the fuselages didn´t reach their destination and they seem to feature the very last camo variation for the Bf109K-4. The almost-ready Flossenbürg K-4s fuselages still have RLM 76-painted bottoms, those prefabricated fuselages only have rudimentary RLM 76-spraying at the sides.

Regards

Roland

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Hallo Roland,

I follow you easily for Grafenwöhr; but were there no final assembly at Wertheim? Or acceptance flights of newly assembled machines like at Kralupy for the DIANA Bf109G-10? Any input highly appreciated!

Cheers
Marc