JG 301 mission on 17 Dec 44

[Erich]

sure go ahead .......

E ~

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Don Caldwell

Hi Hal --

Thanks for the useful confirmation of the foul weather over western Europe. I'm inclining to your conclusion that Reschke is mistaken. But in which sense? Was the 17 Dec 44 mission flown against the 15th AF, which means that all of his details WRT direction after takeoff, location of combats & crashes, etc. are incorrect? Or does he simply have his date wrong, and he is in fact describing a combat (on another date) against a small formation of 8th AF B-24s and their escorts of P-51s (and P-47s?). I'm having a hard time finding a suitable 8th AF combat match, but I'm hampered by the fact that Reschke is the primary source of data for many of the missions he describes, so there's no independent source to match him up against.

Horrido!

Don

Don - Erich answered your basic question - but the 9th AF was engaged in air combat up and down the Bulge front lines per Pioneer Mustang Group by Blake on pages 270-272

[Don Caldwell]

Hi Dragondog --

I can accept that 9 AF units were up on 17 Dec despite the bad weather, but that is irrelevant WRT my basic question of the JG 301 mission as described by Reschke -- JG 301 would not have flown from Berlin to battle tactical aircraft over the western front, on 17 Dec or any other date. I'm thinking Erich has solved my problem, but am checking my 23 Dec data for uh-ohs.

Don

[Kutscha]

SATURDAY, 23 DECEMBER 1944

STRATEGIC OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force): 2 missions are flown.
Mission 757: 423 bombers and 636 fighters are dispatched to hit marshalling yards, communication centers and a rail junction in the rear of the battle area; 75-150 Luftwaffe aircraft are encountered and the AAF claims 75-5-23; 7 fighter are lost:

1. 148 of 153 B-17s hit the marshalling yard at Ehrang; 45 B-17s are
damaged; 1 airman is KIA and 1 WIA. Escorting are 54 of 62 P-51s; they claim 20-0-3 aircraft without loss.

2. 113 B-24s are sent to bomb communication centers at Ahrweiler (48),
Junkerath (31) and Dahlem (27); 74 B-24s are damaged; 3 airmen are WIA.
Escort is provided by 243 of 254 P-51s; they claim 1-0-0 aircraft; 1 P-51 is
lost (pilot MIA) and 1 damaged beyond repair.

3. 152 B-17s are dispatched to hit marshalling yards at Homburg (58) and
Kaiserslautern (40) and the rail junction at Homburg; 6 others hit targets
of opportunity; they claim 6-4-5 aircraft; 77 B-17s are damaged; 1 airman is WIA and 7 MIA. Escorting are 112 of 117 P-51s; they claim 2-0-0 aircraft without loss.

4. 6 of 6 B-17s fly a screening mission.

5. 163 P-47s and P-51s fly a fighter sweep of the Bonn, Germany area; they claim 46-1-15 aircraft; 3 P-47s and 3 P-51s are lost (all pilots MIA).

6. 20 P-51s fly a scouting mission without loss.

Mission 758: 5 B-17s and 7 B-24s are dispatched to drop leaflets in France,
the Netherlands and Germany during the night; only 10 aircraft drop leaflets. The 374th, 375th and 376th Fighter Squadrons, 361st Fighter Group, based at Little Walden, England with P-51s, begin operating from St Dizier, France; the 486th and 487th Fighter Squadrons, 352d Fighter Group, based at Bodney, England, begin operating from Asch, Belgium with P-51s.

[Don Caldwell]

Here's some of my data that appear relevant to the hypothesis that JG 301 flew on 23 Dec 44:

1. JG 301 losses -- none in the RLM "Strichliste" (BA-MA RL 2 III/xxx) - this proves nothing either way, of course.

2. JG 301 claims -- none in the RLM claims microfilms -- this proves nothing either way, either; these have just about played out by this date.

3. 8th AF 2nd BD activity (this was the B-24 command) -- the INTOPS Summary for this date says 113 B-24s were dispatched against commo targets at Junkerath, Dahlem, and Ahrweiler. E/a opposition: nil; losses: nil. These targets were serving the Ardennes offensive and were fairly close to the battle lines -- nowhere near Kassel, at any rate.

So from my data, 23 Dec 44 doesn't look like a good replacement for Reschke's 17 Dec 44. Erich, please come back.

One possibility that hasn't been addressed here is a small RAF Bomber Command day raid -- Lancs and Mustang IIIs instead of B-24s and P-51s -- that didn't find its way into Middlebrook. Any RAF BC experts out there? The date of such a raid, as far as I'm concerned, is open.

Horrido!

Don