FW-190 A9 werkenr.960324 8./JG4

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

I agree completely with you, thenelm, about the quality of "Bodenplatte..." by Manhro & Pütz and I recommended it hightly in another post ;-) But I know Roba and Mombeek - renowned researchers - had a correspondance with Tharan (quoted in JG 4 history) and his version (as individual and actor of Bodenplatte) is the right or, at least, the more plausible despite longtime recollection.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[John Manrho]

OK, ClinA-78, a little help from me then....still not sure if you read our book carefully enough...

As we know JG 4 planned to attack Le Culot. We also know that none of them reached Le Culot....

I. and III./JG 4 flew together and returned after encountering heavy flak over the frontline.

IV./JG 4 came through an attacked St.Trond by mistake. Attached to that formation of 109's were two Fw 190's of 5./JG 4 (Peschel and Wagner). I believe these are the only two Fw 190's of II./JG 4 that came so far west.

II./JG 4 took off with 17 Fw 190's in total, none of them returned directly to Babenhausen. 2 Fw 190 pilots (Peschel and Wagner) took off late and joined IV./JG 4 formation.

In my belief the remaining 15 Fw 190 did not reach that far west (Hannut/Liege) either. Uffz. Tharann flew Wnr. 960324. According to Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report No. 266 that a/c was found bellylanded and looted by the Allies "Northwest of Geilenkirchen". This is the area where more Fw 190's of II./JG 4 ended up, including Uffz. Schwarzenau of 8./JG 4. I have still have to find a case where the Crashed Enemy Aircraft Reports are incorrect.

The Hannut/Liege location is mentioned in ADI(K) No. 62/1945. However, this would not be the first ADI(K) report which lists an incorrect crash location. Please note that these reports where made much later and often combined information from other POW's. Yes, I know Tharann wrote to Mombeek. Eric kindly provided me a copy of his recollections for my book in 1997. The point is however we do not know where Tharann "got his memories from". I know that Ron Pütz wrote him in the early nineties and might have shared the info on what's in the ADI(K)....being Hannut.....

As I wrote in our book on page 108 I believe the Crashed Enemy Aircraft Report is more dominant in proof than what's in the ADI(K) and even what Tharann wrote. Furthermore, Tharann wrote also that he was brought to Eindhoven first (from the crashsite) and then later was transported to Brussels. If he came down near Hannut, then why would he be brought to Eindhoven and then to Brussels???

So, without any additional proof, I still believe he came down near Geilenkirchen, it first perfect in the total picture of II./JG 4 losses.

Cheers,

John

[ClinA-78]

Hello John,

I agree with you, not a problem. Tharann story is a numerous example which may be taken 'cum grano salis' - with care - and I must recognize that my only info about this crash (I don't have investigate it groundly, no time too far) comes from an individual statement which may have been 'influenced' by exchange of info, failing memory (as I said) and the truth is beyond... ;-)
I was not aware he was transfered from Geilenkirchen area to Bruxelles, passing through Eindoven. But why Hannut as crash location (maybe another FW 190 there?)?

Best regards

ClinA-78

[John Manrho]

I think that is the question to be solved, what happened near Hannut? Can somebody trace a crashsite there? Is there maybe local reports on that. At one stage I thought there could be a mix up of werknummers, not uncommon either. However, I do not any proof of that either.

John

[neil c]

Hi John,

What does ADI stand for, and what does the K stand for?

Thanks,

Neil

[John Manrho]

Neil,

Sorry, can not find it. I have it somewhere....but....

ADI(K) reports are intelligence reports on Luftwaffe POW's. For flying personnel they were often made per loss.

Cheers,

John

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by neil c

Hi John,

What does ADI stand for, and what does the K stand for?

Thanks,

Neil

Air Directorate of Intelligence [section] K