Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944

[Khorat]

I was born near that place Hptm Kiel crashed - his and other Bf 110 this day, was shot down by P-38´s (1 loss pf a P-38 not far away), somewhere at my home in germany I had also the Encounter Reports of the US Fighter Pilots - will see next time I´m there, but remember there is one 99% match. But sorry now, bit to far away from home.

khorat

[Peter Kassak]

I Gruppe 4 destroyed, 2 damaged planes
II Gruppe 2 destroyed, one or two damaged
III Gruppe at least 2 destroyed

That is a high number to match with claims, when we do not know details...

[Evgeny Velichko]

Khorat - do You remember a squadron for those P-38's?

[Peter Kassak]

Only lost planes P-38s were of 20.FG, 77th and 79th Squadron lost two each...
here were are on a hunt Evgeny

[Leo Etgen]

Hello guys

Many thanks to all who have responded. My apologies for the III./ZG 26 and III./ZG 76 error but Obermaier has him listed with III./ZG 26 which explains my mistake. It is truly a shame that we do not have the relevant information concerning his final aircraft considering that he was a Gruppenkommandeur and Ritterkreuzträger. What is odd is that it appears we do have the loss list information for when he was shot down on 7 April 1940 which is rather rare:

Bf 110 C "3M + AL" (W.Nr. 3205) of 3./ZG 2 flown by Leutnant Johannes Kiel (prisoner of war) and Unteroffizier Werner Ehm (killed)

I have seen that he was shot down by Sous.Lt Francois Warnier of GC I/5, Armée de l'air on this occasion.

Horrido!

Leo

[Peter Kassak]

Thanks Leo for these details...I list his next affiliation upon the return from POW camp as with I./ZG 26 in May 1941...

[Evgeny Velichko]

Johannes Kiel:

1.9.39 - 7.4.40, with 3./ZG2, when he was shot down and became PoW.
june 40 - 6.4.41 - pilot in 3./ZG26
7.4.41 - appointed StaKa 3./ZG26
1.5.42 - appointed StaKa 6./ZG2 (I./ZG26 redesignated II./ZG2 on 31.4.42)
15.5.42 - transferred to unknown unit.
1.10.1942 - came to Erprobungskommando 16 (Me 163 project)
5.8.43 - appointed StaKa 7./ZG26, Hauptmann (well known picture with him in front of Bf110G-2/M5, with code of 7./ZG26)
1.11.43 - appointed Gr.Kdr. of new formed III./ZG76.
29.1.44 - KiA

Ehrenpokal (23.9.1941.)
Deutschen Kreuz in Gold (9.2.1942.)
Ritterkreuz (18.3.1942.)

Had ~20 claims:
At least 5 during BoB
On 23 April 1941, sunk 3 torpedo bouts in Suda Bay, Greece.
During Barbarossa campaign, sunk U-Bout in Baltic Sea in early autumn 1941.
To the date 9.2.42 had 10 (?) victories.
16.2.42 claimed 3 MiG-3, raised up his tally to 16 victories.
18.3.1942 got RK for ??? victories, 62 a/c destr. on the ground, 9 tanks, 20 Flak positions, 3 cargo ships, 3 torpedo bouts, 1 submarine sunked, also destroyed 16 locomotives.
On 17.04.43 claimed B-17 with 8./ZG26 (????)

Thats all I know about that pilot.

[Khorat]

yap was th 20th FG - if Remember right Lt. Moss bailed out - around 10 km ne of Kiel´s crash side.

khorat

[Ota Jirovec]

Hello all,

for your information, these were the claims made by 20th Fighter Group pilots against Luftwaffe twin-engined fighters on 29 January 1944, 6-0-1 in total:

2/Lt Royal D. Frey, 55th FS, 1 Me 110, Undenheim
2/Lt Chester A. Hallberg, 55th FS, 1 Me 110, Undenheim
2/Lt Walkter L. Whiteside, 77th FS and Maj Richard L. Ott, 79th FS shared 1 Me 210, SW of Frankfurt
1/Lt Evan J. Machen, 77th FS, 1 Me 110, SW of Frankfurt
1/Lt Richard T. Bond and 2/Lt Robert S. Flynn, both of 77th FS, shared 1 Me 210, SW of Frankfurt
2/Lt Richard C. Garrett, 77th FS, 1 Me 110 damaged, SW of Frankfurt
Maj Richard L. Ott, 79th FS, 1 Me 110, Mainz

This information comes from Kent D. Miller´s Fighter Units and Pilots of the Eighth Air Force (it is likely that Frank Olynyk´s ETO claim list can provide more accurate locations and times of the individual claims, but unfortunately I do not have this list).

Hope this might help a little,

Ota

[Peter Kassak]

Gentlemen
question: was ZG 26 in the air? and suffered any losses or victories on January 29, 1944? If not all the Me 110s are for ZG 76 in that area, as NJG 6 was a bit more north...?