Missing airman : RAF matricule 48949

[Andy Saunders]

Fg Off Allen is shown as having baled out at around 14.30hrs 10 miles NW of Gembloux - but I have not checked where Lessines is in relation to this position.

Originally, Allen was posted as missing on 15 May 1940 but returned to his unit the next day. As we now know, he was shot down and killed near Neuvilly on 18 May 1940.

[arnaud]

Bonjour,

Thank you for information about F/O Allen. I have two questions:

1. Could you tell me if those documents about F/O Allen are serious? I confirmed again that I have found a direct witness who saw “Allen” written in the flying helmet found near the crash site at Lessines on May 14th 1940 with one part of his scalp still in it…
2. For Neuvilly: I have this information found in local French archive: “Neuvilly : aircraft shot down on May 18th 1940, one engine, light grey colour. No trace of any crew member, no document found also. It was written on the aircraft “Danger Compressed, P.3533”. With this description it is difficult to imagine that an airman was missing in this aircraft. Do you know how people identify here a missing pilot and identify this missing pilot as F/O Allen?

Yours sincerely

[Andy Saunders]

If the crash at Lessines was on 14 May 1940, and the pilot was killed, this cannot have been Fg Off Allen of 85 Squadron. Allen baled out safely 10 miles NW of Gembloux on 15 May 1940. He had returned to his squadron on 16 May and was shot down and killed between 0630 and 0700hrs on 18 May not far from Neuvilly.

However, Hurricane P3533 crashed at Fonds des Solesmes, Neuvilly, and was not the aircraft Allen was lost in - which was P2555. The pilot of P3533 was killed and remains unidentified.

Unfortunately, we do not even have a clue as to what squadron P3533 was on the strength of.

[Andy Saunders]

What is the story about the memorial on the bridge at Lessines, Arnaud?

Does it not give any date or details, and when was it put up?

Oddly, of course, we do have an Allen killed on 14 May 1940 but this was a long distance away at Villers-Cernay. (I went to the crash site some years ago and there was a great deal of the aircraft still lying in the forest with the identification L1591 still in evidence when the wreckage was discovered.)

It seems to me that the witness may have misread Appleton for Allen, perhaps?

[arnaud]

Bonjour M. Andy Saunders,

First 85 Sqn is perhaps the worst squadron to study with 87 Sqn : This is just a general feeling…

For F/O Allen, we have:
1. Lessines : a British fighter shot down on May 14th 1940 : with the name “Allen” in the flying helmet.
2. This could not be Allen buried at Villers-Cernay as his aircraft and body was due identified without any difficulties (could you send me a photo of the wreckage by the way? I would be very thankful. This is for my book on Sedan…).
3. The war grave commission declared this pilot missing on May 15th 1940.
4. At Lessines, the memorial dedicated to Appleton is base without any evidence as the Hurricane is still buried very deep in the ground. If anybody could add anything on that subject, I would be very thankful.
5. O.R.B. declared F/O Allen missing on May 15th 1940 (over Belgium).
6. But O.R.B. declared missing a second time May 18th 1940.
So this is a nightmare! We have 3 information saying one thing (shot down 14th or 15th May) and the ORB giving another date (18th May). There are no details of patrols in May. In June, it is different. The mention saying F/O Allen was missing on May 18th is very strange: did the squadron receive that day the confirmation of this death on May 15th and get confused? If anybody has anything to add…

For P/O Appleton, we have:
1. A crash site near Tournai of a single engine aircraft with this number “R263”: pilot burnt and buried close. Then the grave simply disappeared: missing…
2. P/O Appleton was shot down with this Hurricane “P2635”
3. This pilot is missing indeed…
Those two numbers “P2635” and “R263” are quite similar. I wait for September to find pieces for identification of the type and the factory. If it matched with P2635, it would be a good match.

For Neuvilly:
1. This Hurricane is No. P3533.
2. There is no sign of the pilot in my report.
3. Date 18th may 1940
I have not identified the pilot of this Hurricane. But you say a missing pilot was found there. This is interesting. Could you give me the type of source and what does this source say exactly? For myself I have this only source I gave you in my last message. That is all…

Voilà… Let’s hope some people will add some more useful information…

On avance petit à petit, c'est le principal...

[Andy Saunders]

Arnaud

I cannot really comment on the Lessines or Tournai crashes as I have no further details.

I will try to find the photos taken at the (other) Allen crash site in Villers-Cernay but I do know that a British team (some years before my vist) removed major portions of the wreckage to the UK. I am not sure who this was, but I have seen photos of it on the internet. I must try to find where.

As to Fg Off Derek Allen, he was certainly shot down and baled out 10 miles NW of Gembloux on 15 May 1940.

He was then shot down and killed (missing) between 0630 and 0700 hours on 18 May in Hurricane P2555. I think I will shortly be able to tell you a little more about his "missing" status.

As to the Neuvilly crash, this was certainly P3533 and its pilot was killed in the incident. His remains were discovered in 2007 and are due to shortly be buried as an Unknown RAF Airman. Excavation there in 2007 confirmed the aircraft to be P3533 and so this substantiates the report you have.

If your local reports confirm 18 May 1940 as the crash date (also established in 1945/6 by MREU from local information) then the puzzle remains; who was the pilot of P3533?

I am inclined to think he is a casualty already buried elsewhere as an identified airman and that the 2007 discovery may well be partial remains of that same man. But.....

Unfortunately, we cannot link P3533 to any squadron and the known pilot casualties that day are limited - thus increasing the puzzle over who he might be.

I believe that the MOD here may well be very interested to see or have access to the official local reports you quote in order to assist them in any further enquiries they may wish to conduct into the identity of the mystery pilot from P3533.

[MarkRS]

Sorry to add confusion to this mystery but, according to this Royal Air Forces Association trubute:

"Throughout 1940's long hot summer 32 Squadron was kept busy & Bernard {Henson} was forced to land on two occasions, on 15th August; whilst engaged over Selsey Bill at 18.00 Hours, his Hurricane [P3533[GZ-V] was damaged by enemy fire & Bernard had to land at Tangmere, he was unhurt & the aircraft repairable."

http://www.rememberahero.org.uk/find.asp?tribute=26

[Andy Saunders]

There is no evidence that P3533 was ever on 32 Squadron.

The AM Form 78 gives:

10 MU 26/4/40
HQ CFF 17/5/40
SOC May 40

I can also confirm that wreckage of P3533, with the serial number established, has been discovered at Neuvilly in France. This in addition to confirmation of that number by local French records as provided by Arnaud.

I would further add that the Air Britain register stating that P3533 was lost in France with 46 Squadron (!!) is a complete red herring. Neither is there any evidence that P3533 was ever allocated, at any time, to 46 Squadron.

I would suggest the aeroplane Henson was flying on 15 August 1940 was P3522.

[MarkRS]

Someone should tell the Royal Air Forces Association! I love typos, they send you in circles!

[paulmcmillan]

32 Sqn Orb confirms P3522 (Bullet through Crankcase)