From a C-47 crash site. Someone can help us?

[SALERNO1943]

Originally Posted by Leendert

Salerno,

A friendly person gave the following information:

The following quotes come from 436th TCG microfilm (B0544) records of July/August 1944:
1) NARRATIVE: "July 31 was an unlucky day for the Group as one plane of the 79th T.C. Squadron crashed near Foggia killing nine of the eighteen negro passengers. The crew escaped with minor injuries".
2) CHRONOLOGY: "July 31 - A plane from the 79th T.C. Sq. crashed near Foggia at 1000 killing nine of the eighteen colored passengers. The crew and the other passengers escaped with minor injuries."
3) GROUP ENGINEERING REPORT: "August 1 - Aircraft No. 43-15153 crashed in the mountains of southern Italy near Montevergine Monastery. Nine passengers were killed." (I think this records their equipment loss, which is their main concern, not accident reporting)

Unfortunately no names are provided.

One problem: Foggia is far from Montevergine? But one similarity: both say nine victims...

Regards,

Leendert

Many thanks Leendert. The place where we find crash site is about 90 km from Foggia. Perhaps report you find is not precise. Perhaps the aircraft come from Foggia to go south of France so it need to go to west coast of Italy. The date of 31 july is that we also know from local historian book.
Do you have some idea like we can find a report with names of soldiers?
Any idea about this "negro" soldiers? Their Division?
Again thanks.

[dp_burke]

Been watching this thread with interest to see if the names of the dead men might be found.

The mention above of the men being 'negro' then suggests that we are probably not looking for combat soldiers, perhaps an engineering or other support unit since the 92nd Infantry Division was only entering the line at that stage. But I guess this makes it a little more likely that they were 92nd Inf Div.
If up to nine men were killed, there is some chance that at least one or more still is buried in Italy, some of their family may have chosen to have them remain buried in Italy.

With this in mind, ancestry.com allows us to look at the Italian burials for those died those dates:
31 July in Florence American Cemetery Only

John Chioda Sgt 39th Engineer Combat Regiment 33271457
Fred A Hall Cpl 4064th Quarter Master Service Company 34744224
Rafael Y Mylly, F/O 522 FS/ 27 FG T-123202
Frank Nelson, PFC, 362 Inf Reg / 91 Inf Div 39704979

The NARA AAD enlistment records do show that Fred A Hall was a "Negro" enlistment. All the others were "white" enlistment.

The 1st August includes these names

Frank J. Bertino Pvt 362 Inf Reg / 91 Inf Div W
John L. Carter 717 BS / 449 BG Assumed to be non-negro
William A. Schreier PVC 362 Inf Reg / 91 Inf Div W
Nolen C. Skipworth Pvt 435th AAA Btn No enlistment record found, but confirmed from rosters of the dead that he was White.
Noel Sonnichsen 87th FS / 79th FG W
Joseph O. Van Osdol PFC 362 Inf Reg / 91 Inf Div 37620533 W

All the above are non-negro

Not really anything conclusive there to be honest, the fact that you found infantry weapon parts at the scene, maybe this was a transport of 92nd Infantry Division soldiers on their way to the front.

It is such a pity that the US does not have a proper listing of their war dead similar to the British CWGC. The US Roster of World War Two dead, also on ancestry.com do not include dates, not even a year of death. If we could determine that 92nd Inf Div troops were brought up to the front by aircraft it might be a lead. There will be 92nd Inf Div associations out there, they must have records.

[SALERNO1943]

Many thanks for your interesting informations!
However, because they were dead in south Italy I think they were buried in Nettuno War Cemetery. Do you can search Nettuno cemetery with date 31 july or 1 august?
Do you are able to contact 92 inf div Association?
Many thanks again.

[dp_burke]

My posting above was the result of a full search of all cemeteries in Italy but I notice that I think it did not do all cemeteries, I will do the search again.

but can you please go back and delete the 'quote' of my post in your last post, there is no need for people to always use the quote function, you are replying to a message directly above your post, why waste space on the server, the forum owners probably have to pay for this webspace, lets not fill it up with pointless quotes from previous messages, simply say, 'regarding your post above..."

I'll run the ancestry.com search again, I see more casualties in the other cemteries, don;t know whey they did not turn up.

[SALERNO1943]

OK. Many thanks!

[dp_burke]

Trying again, the first database seesm to not have the Rome Cemetery casualties.


In Sicily and Romw Cemetery

Clifford Bell 32328840 New York Private 324th Air Survey Squadron 31 Jul 1944 Buried DIED NON BATTLE AAD = White

Richard O Gates Vermont First Lieutenant 725th Bomber Squadron 451st Bomber 31 Jul 1944 Missing Assumed to be non-negro

Frank B Green 36871031 Michigan Private First Class 812th Engineers Battalion Aviation 31 Jul 1944 Buried DIED NON BATTLE Cannot find in AAD database

Jerry C Roch 36566873 Michigan Staff Sergeant 513th Bomber Squadron 374th Bomber 31 Jul 1944 Buried FINDING OF DEATH Cannot find in AAD database

Lawrence C Stankus 15078527 West Virginia Sergeant 551st Parachute Infantry Regiment 31 Jul 1944 Buried DIED NON BATTLE
WWiimemorial.com says that Stankus was killed in an accidental shell explosion, plus he is a white soldier from his photo there.


Thomas I Conboy California First Lieutenant 717th Bomber Squadron 449th Bomber 1 Aug 1944 Buried DIED NON BATTLE

Raymond Dillard 34232729 Louisiana Private 190th Ordnance Ammunition Company Aviation 1 Aug 1944 Missing DIED NON BATTLE This solider is recorded as being negro in his enlistment record, but he is missing, not buried.

Francis A Fredette Massachusetts Chaplain First Class United States Navy Reserve 1 Aug 1944 Buried

Albert Hall 34203522 Alabama Private 1902nd Ordnance Ammunition Company 1 Aug 1944 Buried DIED NON BATTLE This airman was negro per enlistment records

Owen Kohl California Master Sergeant 18th Squadron 66th Troop Carrier Group 1 Aug 1944 Buried DIED NON BATTLE

So, still not very conclusive, the most hopefull of all above is Pvt Albert Hall but he is a day later than the crash date.

I suggest you contact the www.abmc.gov people and ask them if their old record show a batch of burials around that date that would match up. It would have been 1948 or there abouts before these mens bodies were returned home for burial.

[SALERNO1943]

Thanks. Please note that from book we have 9 men died in crash and 2 or 3 in next days.
I'm unable to contact organization you quote because of my poor english. Do you can contact?
Again many thanks!

[dp_burke]

No problems I'll pop them on a message see what happens.

[Leendert]

I also did a "quick" look on ABMC for casualties on 31 Jul 44 and just came to already mentioned Cpl. Fred A. Hall of the 4064th QM Service Company.
He was "black" according to his enlistment record.

First elements of the 92nd Inf Div had landed at Naples only the day before the 31 July crash.
I therefore think all victims were from non-combat support units already in Italy instead, like above QM Coy.

Regards,

Leendert

[SALERNO1943]

Thanks. And if they are doing a fly from Naples to Foggia? The crash is just on these 2 towns.
Please note also that at least a man was in infantry and these men have weapons like BAR, Browning o.50 and others on aircraft.