Bf109 massacre on 30 July 1943

[Brian Bines]

The Me 323 fell to a Marauder of 14 Sqd.

[keith A]

So it would appear for 21 read 4 or less, and German claims a little high but within the 1:3 ration that seems to pertain to most air combats. The 325th don't appear to award shared claims so it looks like everyone who fired at an aeroplane was credited with a victory.

It seems that this could be down to inexperience. Theirs claims appear to have more validity as the months go by.

regards

Keith

[yogybär]

Quite special thing, such a big "pure" fighter-fighter-battle!

Does anyone know which subseries of P-40 was in use by then in the 325th FG?

[Oberst]

K's I believe. It may have been 'L's' but I don't think they were fully equipt with them until August? Could be wrong though.

[Frank Olynyk]

According to the combat reports of the 325th FG, the were flying mostly P-40Fs, with a few P-40Ls also.

Frank.

[Oberst]

The 325th were still using F's at that point? I did not know that.

[Gianandrea Bussi]

Italian aircraft were not involved in the combat with 325th FG.

Gianandrea

[yogybär]

From a technical point of view, on the first look, the P-40 stands no chance against a Bf109G. But when one look into the BD605 problematic and then rethinks that some of the 109's might have carried the gunpod-Rüstsatz, then the performance of such a 1,3ata-3xMG151/20-109G-6 is only a bit better then that of a P-40F.

Interesting is the following statement:

"poorly executed tactics" and "lack of coordination"

It implements that already by mid-1943, US-pilots were much better then their German counterparts.

Can anyone state who were Gruppenkommandeur and Staffelkapitäne and other aces of III./JG77 on that day?

[Oberst]

That is a very good question. I can't find any information on III./JG 77 during that time period.

[keith A]

Hi,

It certainly strains credibility that Warhawks could claim such large scores against the Bf109G. Evidence prior and post the period of the Summer of 1943 indicate that the Warhawk was a good ground attack fighter but a less than average air fighter except against adversaries such as the Ju52, SM82 or Me323. Experienced commonwealth P40 pilots were scaling down thir claims because of the technological/training/experience of their Axis fighter opponents

I believe that the over inflated scores of Warhawk pilots was largely due to the confusion and inexperience of the group in air combat. Veterans like the 33rd and 57th seem to be more accurate about their results, By 1944 the 325th was making more accurate predictions.


cheer-o

Keith