Bf 109 G identity seeked

[Harold Lake]

Gentlemen,

Without knowing this aircraft's werknummern, it is very difficult to be 100 percent certain of its subtype and, by extension, its role. The only real clue is the enigmatic white wedge atop the rudder. Besides black 17, W.Nr. 463141, another Gustav, yellow 12, W.Nr. unknown, photographed after the war at Kassel-Rothwestern, also had the white wedge and, I recall seeing at least one other Gustav with this marking but can't recall exactly where. I think the odds are in favor of a fighter unit as opposed to reconnaissance because neither black 17 nor Yellow 12 had any visible camera carrying features.

Hal

[S Sheflin]

Hello everyone,

This beautiful aircraft is of particular interest to me because of the prominent wedge of white on its upper rudder. As Mr. Lake stated, counting this new example, there are four that I have documented so far:

G-? 11+ Bk o/l W, Belly landed, 45/05/08+ Location UNK
G-14 463141, 17+ Bk o/l W, Surrendered, 45/05/08, Fürth
G-14 12+ Y o/l Bk, Captured intact, 45/05/08, Kassel-Rothwesten
G-14? 1+ Bk o/l W, Surrendered, 45/04/26, Faßberg

Interestingly, along with the wedge of white on their rudders, three of the four share white-outlined black plane numbers. Hopefully, we will eventually determine the purpose of this unique rudder marking.

Steve Sheflin

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Gents,

Thanks so much for your inputs; as you put it Steve, "Schwarze 11" is really a beautiful machine, and this white wedge is of special interest. Is this really a new feature, never seen before? I'll have a look at the F./ and NAG units machines pics I do have under my hand....

Harold,
the issue of seeing cameras fixtures on 109's is truly a discouraging one. I wouldn't dismiss a NAG machine on the only count no camera fixtures are being seen on a photograph. You can check my Bf 109 G-8 section and none of the 32 referenced pictures do ever show the slightest hint of cameras.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...7625536800422/

On the contrary, W.Nr. 463 141 "Schwarze 11" is officially documented as being on strength of 2./NAG. 14. All doors remain thus open...

Cheers
Marc

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Folsk,

Just for the sake of a close-up on one of those white wedges Bf 109 G tails, I've uploaded such a pic of Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 463 141 "Schwarze 17" of 2./NAG 14:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Still looking for others; there is one similar marking on a tail of a Bf 109 G in Broken Eagles 2, p. 8, taken at Lippstadt.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers
Marc

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Just found and added the picture of "Gelbe 12", found in Kassel-Rothwesten, May 1945.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Cheers
Marc

[ChristianK]

Hi all,
in Revi magazine No.44 there is a collection of photos showing at least three Bf 109s with those white triangles on their rudders. They were found at the war's end in Hodkovice (Liebenau near Reichenberg) and the authors attribute them to III./EJG 1. Apparently this speculation is based on the geographic area and the difference in marking style compared to NAGr 15 (then based at Liberec/Reichenberg).
But even after a quick check some conflicting facts come up. For once, Martin Holm's site sees II./EJG 1 in Liebenau, not III./EJG 1. Secondly, the marking styles of "Black 17" at Fürth and "White 12" at Kassel are different to each other too.
So not much clarity here, but perhaps a small puzzle piece that will lead to a solution.

Regards,
Christian

[S Sheflin]

Greeting all,

Can someone scan the photos to which Christian refers in REVI magazine #44? I would love to get a look at them

Steve Sheflin

[ouidjat]

Hi all,

If it's so, it's not a unit marking but something else I did suggest in Marc Flickr page under "Schwarze 11" picture... Explanation still open.

Cheers, Franck.

[veltro]

Here they are (bad scan quality is not mine but the arrows are). It seems that we have another small Bf 109 detail still unknown...

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Many thanks, Ferdinando!

The workshop picture does bring closer Franck's theory the wedge bring a manufacturer mark, may e even a wooden tail producer.

If my memory serves me well, the first pic showing a Bf 109 in a hangar its nose on the sun was taken in Skutec, and is also published by Janowsky in 2010 in Kagero's "Bf 109 G/K. Vol III.

As you say Ferdinando, another small piece of the "Beule's" checkered history...

Cheers from Autun, Burgundy
Marc