659 IAP KOLDUNOV

[Nikita Egorov]

Excellent staff, Gabor! I wonder how did you get it? As far as I understood you have copies of technical reports of VAs...

[keith A]

Gabor, this is superb! Many thanks. As you have probably noticed Koldunov and Zelenkin are becoming a bit of a hobby of mine. English language sources are a bit thin on the ground but thanks to you and the other members of the forum I'm getting a proper education

best regards


Keith

[HGabor]

Gentlemen,

it is my pleasure! Being one of the (remote) researchers of the Szolnok Aircraft Museum (in Hungary) I have data only on 5th and 17th VA in 1944-1945. (Hungary area) I received loss/mechanical & personal report extracts and copies from TsAMO via our Russian researcher friend(s) and partner(s). We needed this data for our Museum aircraft-recovery projects to identify crashed and recovered Soviet warplanes in Hungary. Having said that we have no information on other soviet Air Armies and/or Fronts.
Cheers,

Gabor

[HGabor]

Since we were talking about the 17 VA, 288 IAD, 659 IAP a lot, here I show you the markings of this regiment. They used a long, straight white arrow along their Yak-1, Yak-9 and Yak-3 planes from the fuselage red star to the pilot's cockpit. Here you can see Capt. Andrei Antonovich Kopichenko, his crew chief and his Yak-9T fighter No.53., S/N: 0815353, where 08=batch no., 153=Zavod 153. (Novosibirsk, No. 153. aircraft factory), 53=plane ID within the batch, - also factory marked tactical number of the plane. Kopichenko flew this plane 20 times between March 2 and May 2, 1944. In May the plane was transferred to the 897 IAP within the 288 IAD in perfect condition, but this plane was NOT listed in the quarterly, October 1, 1944 division mechanical report. (So she was lost, or scrapped before October 1, 1944.)

Photo is from original 17 VA front-newspaper, called: "Защитник Отечества", - issue 158, date: July 8, 1944. (Moscow, State Library Archives)

Gabor

[keith A]

Hi Gabor,

Did the other squadrons in the IAD use similar markings? Perhaps different colours?

best regards

Keith

[HGabor]

You mean IAPs? No. Unfortunately 288 IAD regiments had no similar marking systems at all. Squadrons used different colors, but regiment markings were not similar within division. The really nice feature in VVS markings is that aircraft factories rolled out La-5, la-7, Yak-3 fighter planes with factory applied tactical numbers making the frontline paintings faster and easier for the ground crews. Plane ID part of plane serial number was painted on the planes on late models, eg. Yak-3s still in the factories. Like 1711 = white 17 (of batch no.11) Therefore knowing the plane serial number is an extremely critical information in graphical reconstruction or modelling, kit painting, etc. Regiments usually did not have planes with same tactical numbers (ie two planes with no. 17 from different batches at the same time), if they did, then they usually applied a 3rd digit to make visual difference, eg. 26 and 126, where digit 1 was added on the airfield, while 26 came from the factories in both cases. Size and style of applied digits tell which factory did the plane come from. Eg. Saratov or Tbilisi 'style' numbers on the Yak-3s, etc. Older models in 1941, 1942, unfortunately did not have this practical numbering system from factories. IL-2 units also did not have this method. IL-2 regiments usually went by 1X, 2X, 3X markings in their 3 squadrons, where eg. tactical '21' was plane No.1 in the 2nd squadron, tactical '213' was plane no.13 of the 2nd squadron, etc. IL-2 regiments therefore had 3 digit markings very often, fighters only when factory applied number was the same (from different batches) on two or more planes at any given time in the same unit.

Gabor

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by HGabor

You mean IAPs? No. Unfortunately 288 IAD regiments had no similar marking systems at all. Squadrons used different colors, but regiment markings were not similar within division. The really nice feature in VVS markings is that aircraft factories rolled out La-5, la-7, Yak-3 fighter planes with factory applied tactical numbers making the frontline paintings faster and easier for the ground crews. Plane ID part of plane serial number was painted on the planes on late models, eg. Yak-3s still in the factories. Like 1711 = white 17 (of batch no.11) Therefore knowing the plane serial number is an extremely critical information in graphical reconstruction or modelling, kit painting, etc. Regiments usually did not have planes with same tactical numbers (ie two planes with no. 17 from different batches at the same time), if they did, then they usually applied a 3rd digit to make visual difference, eg. 26 and 126, where digit 1 was added on the airfield, while 26 came from the factories in both cases. Size and style of applied digits tell which factory did the plane come from. Eg. Saratov or Tbilisi 'style' numbers on the Yak-3s, etc. Older models in 1941, 1942, unfortunately did not have this practical numbering system from factories. IL-2 units also did not have this method. IL-2 regiments usually went by 1X, 2X, 3X markings in their 3 squadrons, where eg. tactical '21' was plane No.1 in the 2nd squadron, tactical '213' was plane no.13 of the 2nd squadron, etc. IL-2 regiments therefore had 3 digit markings very often, fighters only when factory applied number was the same (from different batches) on two or more planes at any given time in the same unit.

Gabor

Hello Gabor,

Thank you for all the information that you shared! May I ask a different question about Koldunov? I've recently read, through Google Translate, a Russian web source that claims Koldunov shot down a Fw 190D over Austria towards the end of the war. This sounds very dubious to me, but I wonder whether you can provide a clarification on this subject. Did Koldunov or any of his colleagues encounter 'Doras' over Hungary or Austria? Indeed, were any 'Doras' available to the Luftwaffe in that area?

Regards,

Paul Thompson

[HGabor]

Hi Paul,

I think it is just another common ferry tale... Soviet reports usualy mentioned only core AC type without subtypes, especially in 17 VA: ФВ-190, Me-109, or Ю-52, etc. Also, their reports are FULL of mistakes even at the main AC type! (Not to mention serious overclaims by flak and air units, claiming the very same plane.)

Several times when they reported 'ФВ-190', their real opponents were in fact Hungarian Bf 109s. (usually G-10 & G-14s) Do not forget, in early 1945, the winter, or March visibility in the smoky clouds was Xtremely poor!!! They were not todays' museum-visitors, walking around the planes, - checking air-intakes, etc... Usually they just saw a dark silouette in a distance for a few seconds in the hazy air, (usually from the back or the front side). And they had to make decisions in a few seconds. Maybe the Hungarian spinner spirals and unusual grey-white crosses made them think it was a Fw 190, or 'close to it'. So even the AC types in official victory lists are seriousely questionable, not to mention the subtypes: F, G, or D. That sounds totally unrealistic. Otherwise in 17 VA op. area only Fw 190F-8s, F-9s were flown by SG.2 and 10. Hungarians used only F-8s. The rest was Bf 109G-6, 10, 14. So I think Doras never met Koldunov's flight. Cheers,

Gabor

[Paul Thompson]

Hello Gabor,

Thank you very much! It's essentially what I expected, since there is no other mention of 190Ds in the area. I suppose it's difficult to expect good aircraft identification given that it was clearly not a priority and when there were additional limitations that you described.

The reason that I am interested in this question is because it touches upon the topic of the relative performance of the late-war fighter types of both sides, be they Yak-3s flown by Koldunov or the later model 109s of the Axis. Could it be that the mention of the mythical 'Doras' represents the fact that later 109s had significantly better performance, surprising the Soviet side?

I've copied three Russian-language web extracts below, so that you can see what I looked at and perhaps comment on their contents. The first two are about the 'Doras', the last describes Koldunov's flight claiming 11 victories on the 8th and 9th March 1945. Note that in extract 1 the aircraft are Ta 152s, in extract 2 they are 190s with bombs!

1. http://jairspb.org/?page_id=229
Свои последние две победы одержал на Як-3 Александр Колдунов, в воздушном бою западнее Вены он сбил два Та 152. Комэск 151-го ГИАП Е.Ф. Веселовский сбил над Веной на Як-3 четырехмоторный “Кондор”.

2. http://www.airwar.ru/history/aces/ac...s/koldunv.html
Свой последний бой он провел западнее Вены, вблизи Санкт - Пальтена с пятеркой "фоккеров" груженных бомбами. Шли они спокойно, видимо не ожидая встречи с нашими летчиками. Колдунов стремительно атаковал ведущего. Тот, не успев сбросить бомбы, взорвался в воздухе. Александр тут же зашел в хвост второму Fw.190. Короткая очередь - и объятый пламенем самолет противника устремился к земле. Через несколько дней после этого вылета война закончилась.

3. http://clubs.ya.ru/46116860184274333...l?item_no=3186
8 марта Герой Советского Союза капитан А. И. Колдунов и 5 его товарищей вступили в неравный бой с 12 вражескими истребителями и уничтожили 6 из них. На следующий день эскадрилья капитана Колдунова вела бой уже с 26 самолетами противника. И в этом бою враг потерял 5 самолетов, а советские летчики благополучно вернулись домой.

Regards,

Paul Thompson

[HGabor]

Thank you Paul, interesting materials. It is true that towards the end of the war new technology (Bf 109G methanol-injection, or Yak-9U, La-7 fighters, etc.) mutually surprised both sides. New fighter behavior made some pilots discovering ‘new’ enemy planes in the air and in their reports, like ‘Yak-11’ , etc. Hard to say anything what really happened in April, May 1945, because as the 3rd Reich was shrinking, op. area of the Luftwaffe also became smaller, making different AC types able to reach other geographical areas. Also, in the final weeks tons of documents were lost, destroyed on purpose, or some quick actions were simply not documented at all. Perhaps the only witnesses got killed before reporting anything. However.

On March 8 and 9, 1945 Koldunov’s 866 IAP was involved in heavy dogfights in the Káloz-Seregélyes area in Hungary, south of Lake-Velencei. On March 8, 1945 soviet Yak-3 flight lost Victor Vasilevich Yablochkin in his Yak-3, S/N.: 310099, engine: 422-166. At 14:20, Moscow time six Yaks, under the command of Panin encountered 8 Bf 109s. Yablochkin’s Yak-3 got hit, and trailing white smoke disappeared. Fellow pilots saw a big explosion north of railway station of Zichyújfalu, but it is not confirmed that it was Yablochkin’s plane.
On March 9, 1945 Koldunov’s flight of 7 Yak-3s attacked Bf 109s and Fw 190s near Seregélyes. Bf 109Gs probably belonged to Hungarian 101/1. Sq., led by Michna György hdgy., intercepting the flight of sixteen, 17 VA, 260. BAP A-20 Bostons, taking off from Sombor airfield. One Bf 109G crashed at 17:15 near Antal-major (Dég-NE), killing her pilot, Szabó János (John) hdgy., who probably fell to the guns of Lt. N. G. Surnev. Koldunov and Kosmin also reported victories.
5 VA Bostons (452, 453 and 48 BAP) attacked Várpalota in the morning in three waves.
Total Boston loss of soviet 5th and 17th VA on March 9, 1945 was three A-20Gs:

42-54189, - engines: 42-174893, 42-174916
42-54225, - engines: 42-154336, 42-155242
42-86687, - engines: …105022, …85751
and an A-20C:
42-33326, - (written off without the engines),

while several others (eg. 43-10085, etc.) were damaged, and/or temporarily disabled. Soviet AF suffered very serious losses in March, 1945 while trying to stop Germany’s last major panzer offensive (Frühlingserwachen) of WWII in the Lake-Velencei area, Hungary. All air units of 5 and 17 VA, including Koldunov’s 866 IAP were extremely busy these days. Koldunov claimed his last 2 Fw 190s over Austria on April 11, 1945 (Stockerau-W, Goldegeben-S), but I think they were just regular Fw 190F-8s or 9s, not Doras. (BTW: 5 VA, 13 GvIAD, 151 GvIAP’s main AC type was the Yak-9U these days, very similar to the Yak-3. They lost two Omsk-built Yak-9Us (S/N.: 42166063 and 42166074) on April 16 and 17, 1945, - not Yak-3s!)

Gabor