2. Batterie Marine flak-abt 246

[richard.k]

To add to this discussion, the crew of LN-547 floated around for 4 days before being picked up. They were spotted once by a Beaufighter on the first day and a JU-88 in the morning on the fourth day and a Dornier flying boat later in the day. A rescue launch took them to Borkum.
Regards, Richard

[Stig Jarlevik]

Sorry Jaap

What I ment was if we can settle that it was LN547 and NOT LN457 which came down on this date....
However I am basically convinced that it was by now

Cheers
Stig

[BIG TYKE]

Gentlemen

It seems that we should now be looking at LW224 if these two aircraft are the only ones to be brought down in this area that night. But as Hans has said the bodies where washed up on the southern tip of Texel and from this the tides would mean if the crew went into the water south of Schirnmonnkoog they couldn't drift that way.
The problem with LW224 is the bodies. So do we have another aircraft?

The German report says that no parachutes were seen. Although in the dark and in the heat of battle confusion reigns, the night was starry with 2/10th cloud in their statements the flak crew also said they had a good view of the enveloping action, so I think their report must be believed.

The Z files may hold some answers but that will not be today. I have read books that state once the bombing run was completed it was every man for himself. Now, I am not sure if crews would stay in formation on the return leg or from sheer relief that they got through just opened the throttle and steer close to the intended return co-ordinates.Even on the return, it must have been safety in numbers.

From the notes Rob Phillips sent me only LW224 & LK635 have 5 or more crew missing on that night. All other aircraft that were lost their crews can be accounted for in one of the many cemeteries. Research into LK635 is centered around 4 Graves in Hanover bearing the date 22 September 1943 but marked as unknown's.

So again I am at a loss.

Nick

[Hans Nauta]

Hi Nick and others,

The bomber crews used to fly back in a continuous stream in that part of the war, that's why there is a good chance of reports from other crews.

I've checked the raid plot in the Interception and Tactics Reports (AIR14/3743) and there is a small flag near Schiermonnikoog on that map, indicating that something has happened there.

Richard, what is your source for the fact that the Wellington crew was taken ashore at the German Isle of Borkum?
My source is the German Kriegsgefangenen Kartei (POW card index). Two crew members were captured at sea near the Wieringermeer, a third in the Wieringermeer polder.

Regards,
Hans

[richard.k]

Hans. I have the loss of aircraft reports by all crew members. I can send them to you if you wish. It seems odd that they all were not captured in the same place if all were in a dinghy.
Regards, Richard

[Jaap Woortman]

Richard,

It would be great if you could send these report to Hans. It would give us the possibility to study these discrepancies between the info from the German Kriegsgefangenenkartei and the postwar reports of the crewmembers.

Jaap Woortman
Study Group Airwar 1939-1945

[BIG TYKE]

I have taken a look at the raid details in AIR14/3411

I found the map with the black flags and indeed it shows a flag over Schiermonnkoog.
Not sure how this relates but in the narrative under Alternative targets:

10 a/c dropped their loads in the area's of - Hildesheim, Neustadt, Springe, Emden (2), Groningen, Loningen, Dokkun, Schiermonnkoog & Vlieland.

The a/c that attacked Schiermonnkoog was a Lanc from 5 Group. It jettisoned
1 X 4000, 1560 X 4 & 80 X 30 incendaries. The reason for this appears to have been mechanical defect that prevented the attack on the primary target.

So does the black flag relate to this a/c attacking the Island? Or would this be a combat report?
Not sure which a/c was involved but the main track for the outward route is shown crossing Schiermonnkoog which could mean that the problem the a/c had happened before reaching the target.

In the 61 Sqn ORB for that night one of their lancs ED314 returned early as the Port Outer was U/S and jettisoned 1 X 4000 HC at 53.42N - 02.18E. Not sure if I plotted this correctly, help may be needed, but it shows it in the middle of the North Sea.

Also from 428 Sqdn Halifax V LK906 NA-D reported that their Port Outer supercharger was U/S and jettisoned their bombload at 54.13N - 03.26E at 20.24pm. Again this a/c returned safe but help with the plotting please.

Of the 38 attacks on a/c, 22 occurred within 20 miles of the target on the return & 8 over home bases.

So, the German report seems to relate to an outward bound a/c unless other squadron's take off time was much earlier that 61 & 428 Sqdn's. The return of aircraft from those two was roughly 1am at base.

Nick

[BIG TYKE]

Richard:

Would you have Z forms in your research? From the discussion in this thread this form (if they still survive) would be a vital source.

This raid is my main research because of the loss of LK635 so any information regarding that night is of interest to me. I seem to move my thinking the more I read and have pondered on whether this is an un-accounted a/c that has come down. And as LK635 is the only one that seems to be un-accounted for, it looks as though I will be looking further into this report in the future.

Is there a record of "Unknown's" in cemeteries?

Nick

[BIG TYKE]

I Have contacted Bill Chorley and he says that the information regarding LW224 and its location would have come from Hans de Haan.

So, the question appears to return, Is this report for a previously uninvestigated aircraft?
LK635 is the only one left that has no details on her fate that night.

Does anyone have knowledge of the Z reports that Hans mentions and if any for the raid an Hanover that night survive?

I have copies of the ORB & the raid summary but what other documents should be looked at, that might highlight corroborating evidence?

Nick

For the Mods: If you feel this thread would be better in the Allied section then please move> It appears that although I initially requested information of the Flak unit, it is now turned into a search for an Allied bomber.

[richard.k]

Hello Nick. The PRO has a group of files called Raid Plots. They contain the Z-files. Unfortunately there is not a full set. Air 14/3219 covers August 1943 and Air 14/3220 covers October 1943. Seems that they did not save Sept 1943.
Regards, Richard