Calling for help from Matti, Andreas B, Jim P and others

[Matti Salonen]

2.(H)/14 did not lose any Bf 110. The only loss was those two guys on ground. Maybe somebody has mixed up the lost aircraft of St.G 3 with POWs from 2.(H)/14. I cannot offer any other explanation. If some one has a proof of other losses, I would like to know the details to correct my database.

Matti

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ouch

Must learn to read the complete wisdom stated in German. I think things are beginning to fall into place now.

Thanks again Matti, and you are certainly correct that MAW has confused this ground loss with the actual true aircraft loss from StG 3. I was too focused on the "new" Bf 110 loss....

Cheers
Stig

[AndreasB]

Some more grist to the mill.

Giarabub Nov 22, 1941 http://www.raf.mod.uk
The following excerpt from 2 squadron RAF regiment was found at http://www.raf.mod.uk which ties into events from the 22nd to 23rd. It has not been verified.
"During a large convoy escort task, consisting of a column of 33 Squadron and 113 Squadron personnel on route for Egypt, a Company patrol on reconnaissance screen duties was attacked by 2 ME110s. One of the aircraft was shot down, but the crew was rescued by the other aircraft before an armoured car could reach them. However, on another attack on 22 November 1941, the Company shot down a JU88 and captured the crew".
Note that S/Ldr Wade of 33 Squadron shot down a JU88 on November 22 or 23 in which two crewmembers were captured and handed over to 113 Squadron. It is not known if this is a double claim with the RAF Regiment or a similar incident.

http://113squadron.com/id19.htm

All the best

Andreas

[AndreasB]

Checked in Taghon, two Ju88 lost on 22 November:

I./LG1 L1+JH Wknr. 5581 A-4 Shot down by AA during low-level attack on armoured column. Crew Lt. Draeger (WIA/POW), Uffz. Schwandtner (KIA), Gefr. Edelmann, Gefr. Riemeyer (both POW)

4./LG1 L1+?? Wknr. 4338 A-5 Attacked by fighters during raid on L.G.125, damaged, crashes 180km east of Agedabia. Crew Uffz. Berthold, Maehler, Richter, Wiesner, all WIA. Presumably recovered.

All the best

Andreas

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys

Did I miss this thread...

Here is what I have with regards to Ju 88s for LG 1 on 22.11.1941:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=158338

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=158228

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=157226

Regards,
Andreas B

[AndreasB]

Hi Andreas

Is Jaegerbeschuss the same as Luftkampf?

Taghon doesn't have a loss at Benina for 22 Nov, only for 23 Nov. Wknr 4363, III./LG1, FF Uffz August Neumann and BF Gefr. Walter Filz both KIA.

But Taghon is hardly error-free either.

All the best

Andreas

[Stig Jarlevik]

Andreas (Norway :-)

I am a bit puzzled you have WNr 3347 as lost on the 22nd.
This one is usually listed as lost on the 20th during an Allied strafing attack.
Do you have new evidence it was in fact damaged on the 22nd instead?

Cheers
Stig

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

Will double check the original records later tonight. It seems that WNr 3347 was reported both on 24.11. and on 5.12., the latter record being stricken as a duplicate. I might have gotten the date wrong there, but will check later this afternoon.

Jägerbeschuss translates to gunfire from fighter aircraft. Luftkampf to aerial combat. These terms could both be used - the finer distinctions between them might not be that important.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, again.

Checked the original loss records and updated the entry for 3347 accordingly. Seems we have not done or best on this particular record - as we work backwards in time the record of 5.12. was entered first, and the correct details for the loss record of 24.11. not updated.

But now it should be correct... quite a few discrepancies in these two records...

Regards,
Andreas B

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Andreas

Cheers
Stig