Werner Baumbach ship destroyer

[Graham Boak]

We know that the Germans did not have "adequate" anti-shipping forces from the start of the war, and never did. Those they did form during the war seem (open to correction) to have been mainly dedicated shipping strike units. I wonder if we are just seeing a difference in emphasis here: that Germans always considered maritime reconnaissance just as part of the job of a reconnaissance unit. On the other side, the RAF did not have dedicated maritime recce-only units either. Such units as they did have went out with bombs to attack targets of opportunity, and this is just what we see happening here.

[Broncazonk]

Soooo...where are the photos of Werner Baumbach's aircraft??

[Stig Jarlevik]

While I also would like to see Baumbach's aircraft Bronc I still can't let the general topic go.

First off all I don't think we should approach Luftwaffe by looking at how RAF did it, except from perhaps a very general view.

Secondly we need to look at the 'happy' years as it is sometimes called from a German point of view, and not the defensive years. During 1940-41 and possibly a large part of 1942 as well, I think the Germans (read Luftwaffe and not Navy) were quite satisfied with how their ocean warfare was going. I don't agree with them feeling they had insufficient anti-shipping forces. If the existing Luftwaffe units felt anything it must have been they had not quite the right tools for doing a 100% adequate job. But they were quite good at adapting their aircraft to perform outside the original design parameters.

So again I don't understand the wisdom of using long range (rebuilt) Ju 88 D for anti shipping purposes. Cameras are heavy enough and on top having bombs onboard every mission to 'just-in-case-we-see-some vessels-let's-bomb-them' would inevitable deplore them of well needed range as well.
Wasn't the whole wisdom with the D-model to use the bomb bay for fuel?

I tried to find more info on Orlowski but can't find much on the 'net'. So far no one has answered the question, did Orlowski score against those 15 vessels shown on the fin of his Ju 88 D? Orlowski flew reportedly more than 1000 missions, which in itself would entitle him to the RK. If he had scored against 15 vessels as well, I am surprised he did not get a higher award and indeed was transferred to a dedicated anti-shipping unit.
My belief is, until someone can proof otherwise, that the vessels we see on the fin of the particular aircraft under discussion was a remnant from its 'A-period'. Since I don't have files showing 'ship-aces' I have no idea if 15 vessels in fact was something many pilots claimed or if they must belong to a very good one. My feeling is the latter. Baumbach's? No idea....

Cheers
Stig

[knusel]

The best German book on bomber aces "Das waren die deutschen Kampfflieger-Asse 1939-1945" by Georg Brütting features but one Baumbach photo with a Ju 88 in the background without visible tailplane.
It says "...when Baumbach had sunk 300.000 tons of shipping, he received the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords as 16th soldier of the Wehrmacht on 18Aug1942..."
However it does not specify the number of sunk vessels.

Cheers,

Michael

[Broncazonk]

Circling back around to this, if the photos attached to #2 are not Werner Baumbach's aircraft, where are they???

Bronc

[knusel]

Good morning,

I would be interested in a rudder photo of Baumbach's Ju 88, too.
Also in a list of the ships sunk by him.

Michael

[Richard Aigner]

Häberlen, in "Davongekommen, als Kampfflieger über allen Fronten", p. 100 - 105 describes two missions flown by his unit (KG 51) with Baumbach, who had been seconded to Häberlen's outfit for the occasion, against the Soviet fleet in the Black Sea harbor of Tuapse on March 22. and 23., 1942. There are several photos showing Baumbach, or the strike pattern of his load of bombs in the harbor. None, unfortunately, of the plane he piloted.
Greetings, Richard

[Broncazonk]

Circling back to this, I just located this photo. That's not Werner Baumbach is it. (Not at all.) Can anyone ID this man, and does it help or add to the mystery?

Bronc

[Jim P.]

Like with most LW flying units and pilots, little is known or has been published about 1.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 120 to this day.

The Ju 88D-1 WNr. 1067 A6+HH had for many years been believed to be the machine of Werner Baumbach, although he flew with KG 30 whose unit code was ‘4D’. A Staffel member from 1.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 120 insists that this was the ‘regular’ aircraft of Stkp. u. Hptm. Helmuth Orlowski (RK 19-Sep-43), and his observer, Oblt. Fritz Heidenreich (RK 3-Jun-41). The scoreboard’s painter was named Klinkohr and it is assumed that the machine was flown by several crews, the tally representing the successes achieved by the aircraft rather than one individual. Note that the latest ‘kill’ is dated 31-Oct-41. Presumably the photos of this machine were taken at Stavanger-Sola on or shortly after this date. This machine was destroyed during an RAF bombing raid at Stavenger-Forus on 7-Jan-42. Orlowski would later lead Aufkl.Gr. 122. He and his crew were reported as MIA on 8-Nov-43 after being shot down by enemy fighters NE of Pescara, Italy. Major Orlowski was flying a Ju 88D-1 WNr. 430 593 4U+UH at the time. Hptm. Heidenreich was reported MIA on 30-May-44 in Ju 188F-1 WNr. 280 216 A6+RH, when he and his crew failed to return from a reconnaissance sortie to the Royal Navy anchorage at Scapa Flow. At the time he was Stkp. of the 1.(F)/120. Meyer/Stipdonk, Von der Fliegerschule zum Einsatzverband, p. 81; Tank Magazine, Luftwaffe Warbirds Photo Album, III, p. 106, photos of starboard side; Luftwaffe Aces of WW-II (1989), p. 134 photo of port side; IWM/PRO, LW Loss Reports, VII & XXIII; de Zeng research.

[Broncazonk]

Great post Jim P!

So where are the photos of Werner Baumbach's KG 30, unit coded ‘4D’ aircraft?

Nobody ever took a picture of Baumbach's plane??

Bronc