German aircraft designations - Fundamental issues

[edNorth]

Rather that comment on comments (as there might be problems of understanding in between culture zones.) I leave that blurb to the "know it all, types".

When charting the forest, try look over the trees.

Exceptions are many in the designations themselves, but there appears be common spelling in most contemporary documentation: abbreviated designer(s) and/or factory, followed by space, then the number from the RLM 8 series (108 for Gliders), again space, then (mosty) versions sub-type by Arabic capital letter, hyphen and sub-type number / modification applied.

I believe using the common* spelling as found printed on front cover of the "native edition pilots operating handbooks" and in many sub-parts of manual (or the like) "be the most official there is".
I believe these were "approved of " before submitting to the printers. (Use of exotic fonts excluded).

What exactly does the designation "He 219 A-0" mean? Its painted A013 on one fuselage factory photo (in an manual). Likewise "Ju 86 G-0, G-1" (made only by ATG in 1939, when making was resumed) refers to the Pre-series of 20 G-0 planes, but G-1 be all new-built - explained in an manual. I think proper designation be Ju 86 G and G-1 respectively, and the pre-series of 70 He 219 be simply "He 219 A".

* In meaning "come on" as used in verbal conversation.

Best
Ed

[Denniss]

0-series aircraft had a special numbering system to identify specific aircraft. In Case of the He 219 A-0 it was A-0 plus a sequential numbering system, the 10th A-0 series aircraft became A-0 10 or A-010.
BTW there were actually 104 He 219 A-0 built (rare/special case).

[edNorth]

No, here you are adding the Production Line running number ( the "A013" is without space or dash), and welding A-series to it. Undisputed they were A-series. But the A-0 as designation is fiction. On the manual front should have stood "He 219 A-vorserie" or "He 219 A-pilot Batch".

Best
Ed

[Denniss]

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.com/arc...inkel%20AG.htm

10/43 manual has it as He 219 (N), 1944 manuals as He 219 A-0
Again this is a special case as the preseries actually evolved into first production series.

[edNorth]

Denniss,
My comment is not personal. As Lennart pointed out designations A-0, B-0 etc. are fiction. Here I believe most are translating German "Serie" (as series) incorrectly. It looks similar, but has different meaning, here the "0" has value of 1 Batch. Putting an nummerical letter to "vor-serie" batch (that is built before Batch 1) is obviously 0 - in nummerical order!

It does not translate as "O-series" as designation, as "A013" (in case of He 219) is/was just 13th A series airframe, 13th in Block Null - and is not a designation. O-Serie here is a Block Number - one singular block (batch) - Germans call this also Vor-serie (pilot batch) or Null- Serien. Here Null translates as Zero. Comparing them to Werk-Nr., these never started with 0000 (always with 0001 or higher). Quantity in each Batch could vary, and did. Using this system a (one or more) rejected airframe (that could belong to many parts batches) was simply replaced by another, getting its planned W.Nr. replaced and W.Nr. numbering were not affected, until the very end at least.

Vorserie (Null-serie) was(is) usually first in production, and very important part of the learning curve - in training construction workers, ironing out bugs (or errors) and usually takes more time to make (and often needs more funding than later ones) but could have more or fewer than subequent batches.

The He 219 A referred to before in manual) has painted "A013" twice. No dash or space there! If it had been painted A0/13 that whould be quite different. Thus on the "He 219 A-0" manual cover (and in manual list) there perhaps should have been "He 219 A-vorserie" (or "Ju 86 G-pilot batch" in English on that type).

As is case of Ju 88 A-0 designation, this is believed fiction too. If it existed, it has escaped mentioning in any known reference I have. Germans researching the subject have not found it either, at least not that I know of. As in case of Ju 88 "O-serie" these had "V" designator assigned. In my opinion an (one) airframe can have an "A" or "V" designation, not both at the same time! In Ju 88 A-1 serie production were many batches, often called "Gross-serien" (involving many makers), yet the O-Serie had specific number of individual airframes, having "V" designation.

William Greens legend lingers on, but consists mainly of holes.
This is just my opinion.

[Lennart Andersson]

I just found that the Flugzeugentwicklungsprogramm that was dated 6 January 1936 contains the designations FW 58 A-0, Ju 86 A-0, He 111 A-0, He 111 B-0, etc, and this means that the letter-dash-digit suffix must have been intruduced in (late) 1935.

Lennart A

[Gerhard]

Just for curiosity: from a "Betriebsanleitung" published by Junkers Flugzeug- und -Motorenwerke in July 1939 - note the subscripted numbers!

Gerhard