Gefechtsverband Helbig/Hallensleben/Kowalewski

[Jaap Woortman]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

18 November (Ultra HP 7352): From 18th Battle Unit Hallensleben subordinated for ops directly to Luftwaffenkommando West, not to Fliegerdivision 3 (comment: as intended on 14th in HP 6781).

And suddenly there was Fliegerdivision 3.
What is this unit doing in the command structure of Lw.Kdo West and GV Helbig/Hogenback/Hallensleben?
I know this unit was formed for the second time in 1943 in Koningberg.
It looks like this was controling close support units and was send to the West in September(any dates available?) 1944.
Was GV Helbig operating under 3.Fliegerdivision and 3.Fl.Div. under Lw.Kdo.West?
According to Holm, I./KG 51 was operating under: first 3.Fl.Div. and later II.Jagdkorps.
Is there any information in those Ultra messages about this 3.Fl.Div. and his relation to I. and II./KG 51?

Jaap

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Jaap Woortman

And suddenly there was Fliegerdivision 3.
What is this unit doing in the command structure of Lw.Kdo West and GV Helbig/Hogenback/Hallensleben? ... Was GV Helbig operating under 3.Fliegerdivision and 3.Fl.Div. under Lw.Kdo.West?
According to Holm, I./KG 51 was operating under: first 3.Fl.Div. and later II.Jagdkorps.
Is there any information in those Ultra messages about this 3.Fl.Div. and his relation to I. and II./KG 51?

Jaap

About all that I remember seeing on Fl.Div. 3 is that it was going to take over a number of units and that within a couple of days that order was cancelled. The units under Hallensleben varied over time and ended up as just NSG 1 and NSG 2. From memory, KG 51 was operating under II. Jagdkorps by about the time of the Ardennes offensive. Since I reading Ultra for information on the NSG units, I didn't take much notice of KG 51 though.

[Horst Kube]

Hi Nick - and all the other involved,

when you talk about "Hallensleben", I wonder, if you mean Major Rudolf Hallensleben (former Hauptmann, Staffelkapitän Stab KG 76) and if we speak about the same "Kowalewski", the later Ar 234/KG 76 commander??

If it's like that, why do you only mention the KG 51??

Did I misunderst the pilots names??

Cheers, Horst

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Horst.

I think you have to re-read the first message by Nick Beale, where indeed KG 76 and Ar 234's are mentioned, along with a multitude of units used to form these ad-hoc units.

Regards,
Andreas

[Jaap Woortman]

Oberstleutnant Hallensleben was Geschwaderkommodore of KG 2 before he became in command of Gefechtsverband Hallensleben.
According to Balke his first name was Rudolf.
D.K.i.G. 17.10.41
Ritterkreuz 5.11.43
Died 19.4.45
I have not been able to find information about him at the VDK site.

My reason for asking these questions is because I want to know the command lines of Kdo Schenk(3./KG 51) and later I./ and II./KG 51 when they were operating in the West with their Me 262s.

Jaap

[Horst Kube]

[quote=Jaap Woortman]Oberstleutnant Hallensleben was Geschwaderkommodore of KG 2 before he became in command of Gefechtsverband Hallensleben.
According to Balke his first name was Rudolf.
D.K.i.G. 17.10.41
Ritterkreuz 5.11.43
Died 19.4.45

-------------------------------------

Jaap,

Rudof Hallensleben was the best friend of my father, Rudolf Kube from Stabsgeschwader/I. KG 76 "Florian Geyer", during their war-times together at the Krim.

I can certify their friendship with several, never seen before photos from those times.

Rudolf Hallensleben sadly lost his life very short before war's end. I know all the circumcances about his death - but his history may be not so very interesting for some clients of this board...

Cheers, Horst

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Hi All,

Luftflottenkommando 3 (subordinated OKL) became Luftwaffenkommando West (subordinated Luftflotte Reich) on 21. Sep 1944.

On 27. Aug 1944 Kdo Schenk was subordinated directly to IX. Fliegerkorps.

On 07. Sep. 1944 it was ordered to subordinate Stab LG 1 directly to Luftflotte 3. It was named Gefechtsverband Helbig and the following units were subordinated:
III./KG 51
NSGr. 2
Einsatzkommando I./KG 51
Remaining parts of Einsatzgruppe 101

Starting with 20. Sep. 1944 Gefechtsverband Hallensleben is mentioned.
Stab/KG 2 is subordinated dirctly to Luftflotte 3 and will asume all resposibilities of Gefechtsverband Helbig. It will be named Gefechtverband Hallensleben and the following units subordinated:
Einsatzkommando I./KG 51
III,/KG 51
NSGr. 2

The KTB I have end on 30 Sep 1944 and Gefechtverband Hallensleben was still mentioned then.

Unfortunately for SES I do not have any info at hand as to the exact location before the move to Arlon, sorry.

Regards,

Norbert

[SES]

Originally Posted by Norbert Schuchbauer

Hi All,

Luftflottenkommando 3 (subordinated OKL) became Luftwaffenkommando West (subordinated Luftflotte Reich) on 21. Sep 1944.

On 27. Aug 1944 Kdo Schenk was subordinated directly to IX. Fliegerkorps.

On 07. Sep. 1944 it was ordered to subordinate Stab LG 1 directly to Luftflotte 3. It was named Gefechtsverband Helbig and the following units were subordinated:
III./KG 51
NSGr. 2
Einsatzkommando I./KG 51
Remaining parts of Einsatzgruppe 101

Starting with 20. Sep. 1944 Gefechtsverband Hallensleben is mentioned.
Stab/KG 2 is subordinated dirctly to Luftflotte 3 and will asume all resposibilities of Gefechtsverband Helbig. It will be named Gefechtverband Hallensleben and the following units subordinated:
Einsatzkommando I./KG 51
III,/KG 51
NSGr. 2

The KTB I have end on 30 Sep 1944 and Gefechtverband Hallensleben was still mentioned then.

Unfortunately for SES I do not have any info at hand as to the exact location before the move to Arlon, sorry.

Regards,

Norbert

Hi Nobert,
They moved the Dehrn/Limburg AFTER Arlon, I just don't know the exact location, but suspect Schloss Dehrn.
bregds
SES

[Horst Kube]

[quote=Jaap Woortman]Oberstleutnant Hallensleben was Geschwaderkommodore of KG 2 before he became in command of Gefechtsverband Hallensleben.
According to Balke his first name was Rudolf.
D.K.i.G. 17.10.41
Ritterkreuz 5.11.43
Died 19.4.45

-------------------------------------

Jaap, after your words, I know Rudof Hallensleben, which was one of the best friends of my father Rudolf Kube, I. Stabsgeschwader during their together-times in the KG 76 at the Krim war.

Rudolf Hallensleben sadly lost his life very short before war's end and the circumcances about his death may be not so very interesting for some honorourable clients of this board...

He left his wife and his son, Thomas Hallensleben, whom I formerlylost out earned to know in Franfm wIf this board has other, more
Because I do not want to discuss here and now the indignant gcircumstanstaces which led to Halli's death, I only want to listen your words about him via e-mail to me personally.

Cheers, Horst

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Hi SES,

the info I have is that on 01. September 1944 they moved the operation to Mayen and resided in the Gymnasium. No reference of Dehrn in the KTB. It is not even mentioned during previous requests by Luftflottenkommando West on the 30. August 1944 to expedite making other locations available for a move well behind the most western German positions. Maybe it never happened or it was a different staff?

Oberstleutnant Rudolf Hallensleben was Kommodore of KG 51 until his death on 19. April 1945. He was killed during a low level attack on the Autobahn bridge near Leipheim while traveling in his staff car with three soldiers to wing headquarters.

Regards,

Norbert