? 5./JG 54, Uffz. Erich Kna:bel, MIA 21.06.1944

[FPSOlkor]

Originally Posted by marsyao

so was there any Il-2 shot down in that air combat, Andrey ?

As long as andrei is absent i'd say yes. One Il was downed. Hope he will reconfirm this

[FPSOlkor]

Originally Posted by kalender1973

He say about 7000 flight hour before he was transferred to his unit. It is possible ??? Even if he was an instructur ?

I was not intending on discussing his memo's? i just recorded them? but i think it is possible that he did had a lot of experience, since they used to fly day and night. His official logged prewar experience is 1100 FH, 5000 flights, and this could be the reason for mistake. It is possible that he made 2000 more sorties.

[Juha]

Hello FPSOlkor or Andrey
was there any claims by the Il-2s. There are many possible explanations how the Tikhomirov’s and Knöbel’s wingman’s stories can be explained but IMHO the three simplest ways are
a) Knöbel’s wingman didn’t notice Tikhomirov’s attack and only assumed that Knöbel was hit by Il-2(s). From the fragments of the report printed in Valtonen’s book it is not clear how intensively the wingman followed Knöbel’s attack, he might have been making simultaneously his own attack and may have only time to time glanced around the overall situation.
b) Knöbel’s plane was first hit by Il-2 and then by Tikhomirov
c) Knöbel’s plane was hit more or less simultaneously by Il-2(s) and by Tikhomirov.

Juha

[FPSOlkor]

Originally Posted by Juha

Hello FPSOlkor or Andrey
was there any claims by the Il-2s. There are many possible explanations how the Tikhomirov’s and Knöbel’s wingman’s stories can be explained but IMHO the three simplest ways are
a) Knöbel’s wingman didn’t notice Tikhomirov’s attack and only assumed that Knöbel was hit by Il-2(s). From the fragments of the report printed in Valtonen’s book it is not clear how intensively the wingman followed Knöbel’s attack, he might have been making simultaneously his own attack and may have only time to time glanced around the overall situation.
b) Knöbel’s plane was first hit by Il-2 and then by Tikhomirov
c) Knöbel’s plane was hit more or less simultaneously by Il-2(s) and by Tikhomirov.

Juha

I'm not that much of the researcher, Andrei got most of the archive data. But as long as i know, the situation in the interview described following situation: EK made a slashing attack and hit Il, and went below sturmovik, and started pulling up to repeat the attack. But he did not notice T's Yak on his tail, and his wingman was way too far.

[Juha]

Thanks a lot, FPSOlkor.
That makes perfectly sense. Now it opens another question. Did the II./JG 54 fought like the Finns often? Meaning that in principle there were pairs, fours etc but in reality in target rich environment everybody attacked his own target, of course giving a quick glance around rather often to maintain some situation awareness and to check one’s own 6 and that of nearest own plane but nothing so close co-operation than in a proper leader-wingman pair.

Hptm. Aloé also had lost contact to his wingman Fw. Huss in an earlier skirmish before he began his last combat with Soviet fighters.

Thankfully
Juha

[FPSOlkor]

Originally Posted by Juha

Thanks a lot, FPSOlkor.
That makes perfectly sense. Now it opens another question. Did the II./JG 54 fought like the Finns often? Meaning that in principle there were pairs, fours etc but in reality in target rich environment everybody attacked his own target, of course giving a quick glance around rather often to maintain some situation awareness and to check one’s own 6 and that of nearest own plane but nothing so close co-operation than in a proper leader-wingman pair.

Hptm. Aloй also had lost contact to his wingman Fw. Huss in an earlier skirmish before he began his last combat with Soviet fighters.

Thankfully
Juha

This is indeed a good question, but i'm afraid beyond my expertize. Sorry. From T: He saw no difference between germans and finns... Besides, I can not say anything about K combat experience. I know only that his total claim list consists of 3 aircraft, including Il in this fight. I do not know how many combat missions he flew befor that... I also do not know how experienced was his wingman...