Knoke's claim, Nov 6 1942

[Jochen Prien]

Gentlemen,

first of all I want to point out that from the impression I got from Heinz Knoke whom I met a number of times and with whom I had many telephone conversations with respect to the unit history of JG 1 and 11 that I worked on during the late 'eighties, he was definitely no boaster and - as far as this can be judged in retrospect - certainly not intent on overclaiming. He certainly was a lively and extremely interested individual who in his late years attended university to hear - if I remeber that right - philosophy and or sociology. But he did not give the impression that he could have laid an unjustified claim on purpose.

His book was written in the early fifties based only on his memory, his Feindflugbuch ( flight log for sorties only ) and the scarce notes he still had. There are certainly a number of twisted dates and also outright errors, many of which we have pointed at in our history of JG 1 and 11 with the expressive agreement of Heinz Knoke, but that doesn't change the fact that the book conveys a very personal yet quite representative picture of the German dayfighters in the home defense.

Now, to his claim of November 6th, 1942: In his book he identified his opponent as a Mosquito, based on the entry in his flight log where it said that he shot down a De Havilland Mosquito in qbi conditions ( very bad visibility ) 70 km north of Borkum. In a claim report of I./JG 1 it said that the opponent was in fact a Blenheim, shot down at 14.26 hrs 20 km north of Wangerooge. And, what is important: It was not confirmed, although it may be the one RAF roundel that appeared on his a/c as his first claim in early 1943.

So, whatever British a/c he fired at on that cloudy Novemberday, he was not rewarded with the confirmation of an unwarranted aerial victory.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[leonventer]

Hope this helps

It certainly does -- thanks very much for posting the clarification, Herr Prien.

Your comments about Knoke's character reinforce the impression that I got from reading "I Flew for the Führer". As one of the very few personal Reichsverteidigung accounts, this book is invaluable for the unvarnished and harrowing insights it provides into late-war Luftwaffe operations in the West. A must-read.

Leon Venter

[Hans Nauta]

Dear Jochen,

Thank you very much for the valuable additional information.
As I stated in my previous post I certainly do not doubt Heinz Knoke's integrity. After an in-depth research of claims, both confirmed and not confirmed, made over North-West Holland during the war I can acertain in nearly all cases (some yet to check in the NA, London) that there was no fiction involved and only misinterpretation. At least something DID happen and then some claims are less mysterious as one tend to believe...

Therefor I hope this thread doesn't turn into an andless debate about overclaiming, but eventually will lead to additional information.

After all I wouldn't be surprised if, with the aid of your information, eventually a report will turn up in the NA from some Coastal Command Blenheim crew, who logged an engagement with a He.113 (!) at that specific time and position.

Best regards,
Hans Nauta

[Hans Nauta]

Dear all,

With help from Greg and Steve from the RAF Commands Message Board it could be acertained that none of the Wellingtons of either 1 or 3 Group was involved in a combat.

Next October I'm back in the National Archives in London and will check Coastal Command 16 and 18 Group ORB.

Regards,
Hans Nauta