JU88 "4D+HN" 5/KG30 missing 29 Sep 41

[andrus]

Mardanov in his book about 1941 writes that they lost orientation and landed at Klimkovka Bay near Malyi Olenij island. Location is probably near this island: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=69.2...,0.1&t=h&hl=ru
Pictures from area: https://aadjo.livejournal.com/7572.html


Crew was captured 12 days later near Tjuva Bay. Maybe this place: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=69.2...,0.1&t=h&hl=ru


At the interrogation they told that they started from Luostari, mission was reconnaissance of coast.
He claims that Kennzeichen was "4D+RN".

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Andrus

That was interesting! Petsamo-Luostari was not a good airfield for bombers, but I suppose making a recce-mission instead of a bombing mission could do the trick.
Guess is, the crew either arrived during the evening the day before and got off on an early start after topping up their fuel or made an early start from Banak and topped up fuel along the way at Petsamo. I don't believe KG 30 ever had a detachment there.

Claiming they were lost, must mean they had encountered some dreadful weather. Navigating along a given coastline in decent weather is basically a piece of cake. Even I managed that....

This information thus came from Soviet sources. Good to know!

Cheers
Stig

[Black6]

Thank you guys.

I believe from their ranks that they were a very junior crew, maybe only recently from training ?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ed (Eggert) has kindly supplied me with details about a Ju 88 A WNr 3306 which was coded 4D+RN and which was lost on 16 Sep 1941. No crew loss known, so it seems they made it back to their own lines.

I feels pretty likely that Mardanov has mixed the unit codes between these two aircraft

Cheers
Stig

[andrus]

I found these pictures claimed to be about this event:


https://vk.com/wall231589662_10691

https://mop-78.livejournal.com/2593.html


Maybe Mardanov took plane code from some picture?

[Stig Jarlevik]

Yes, that is 4D+RN but since Luftwaffe loss records confirm WNr 3306 was coded 4D+RN when lost, that is the aircraft we are looking at, not 5039

Cheers
Stig

[igorrB]

There is Klimovka bay (губа Климовка) on russian Google maps: https://www.google.ru/maps/dir//1846...7448!3e3?hl=ru
It is quite visible that Ju.88 on this remarkable place has 4D+RN at foto (https://waralbum.ru/wp-content/uploa...9/DSCN0736.jpg)
Place is Klimovka not Motovkiy bay, and this is 5039. There must be some error in GQ-data perhaps. Plane later was salvaged by russians and crushed later by test flight.
Also this plane was one on minelaying mission to West passage to White sea but crew lied about this. AFAIK only 3 went POW, also one dyed while crew get through tundra.
Wr.Nr. 3806 landed on german-held territory and thus cannot be photoed by soviet side.
3806 also may be 4D+RN, why not? 5039 became this designation after 3806 loss. There is some other letter beneath R on photo.

[igorrB]

This plane on russian forum. Many photo but poor quality https://sk16.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=1064

[Stig Jarlevik]

Again very interesting IgorrB

First of all the WNr were 3306 and 5039 (none of my sources ever mention 3806)

I presume, through your answer, there are Soviet/Russian documents today which explicitly state the photos are of WNr 5039? What I am driving at is that you are not just quoting from a book or other second hand source, for example Mardanov, are you?.

Looks like we are back to a place called Klimovka Bay. Fair enough. It also seems we are in agreement which place it is. Certainly fits the mission profile, recce flight along the coast.

We also agree upon the code given on the crashed aircraft 4D+RN.

This is what Hannu Valtonen says about the two aircraft

WNr 088.3306 4D+RN 5./KG 30 crashed at the Motovskiy Bay (fiord?) inlet 16.9.1941 due to technical reasons (90% damage). The crew was taken away. The Russians captured the aircraft, made it flyable but it crashed (was destroyed?) 13.2.1943.

WNr 088.5039 4./KG 30 crashed in the Murmansk area with the fate of the crew unknown (+ listing of the four individuals)

From the above it is quite clear that added facts from non-German sources have been added to WNr 3306 but not to 5039.

As I see it, it is of course perfectly possible previous given facts from Soviet/Russian sources are behind the mistakes here and the data supplied to Hannu Valtonen were incorrect.
Are we talking about two aircraft both carrying 4D+RN? Did 3306 in fact carry 4D+RN at all?

Well, I don't get any further with this. Sorry!

Cheers
Stig

[edNorth]

OK, Igor, so 3306 landed in German held terretory. Thanks for that detail, it helps. BA-MA Fliegenden Verband losses (GQM series) actually do not give codes for either one. These must be second source (NvM?) or other.

Code appears be "4D+RN" but Soviet era photos can be doktored, as some (at least one of this plane) was published in English/American magazine and already known during the war, where Soviet sailor-soldier conviniently stands in front of the individual and staffel code. So I toss 4D-RN or 4D-HN out of the equation.

My investigation then focussed into minor details on the bellied Ju 88 A-5 ("4D+RN") and this appears have short Ju 88 A-1 "(early)" version* lifeboat hatch / compartmant and earlier located inspection hole, aft of it, fitting for 0885039, as it was ATG made A-1 originally (04.40) - and later upgraded wings/armament to A-5 standard - but fuselage was still older one (but repaired by WNF) A-1. But not fitting for 0883306 that was A-5 (HFW) and later version, made in February 1941.

Prior code (Stkz or Vbkz.) can not be stated for certainity, perhaps a/c has been transferred before as it was relatively old a/c (ATG assembled, already flying 29.04.40 at Leipzig). The Ju 88 at Vaenga has been known for some time, note ex-RAF Hampden, but this can quite well be A-5 088/5039 with some "new parts" (engines and props) scrounged from crashes elsewhere, even spares parts coming from the two Soviet Ju 88 K-1 sold to the USSR, flown over in May 1940 (0885023 and 5025)

*Later a/c (later production) had larger / longer lifeboat bay (4 man Rubber boat / dinghy with sail & oars AND survival-&-transmitter kit compartment).
My 10 cents.