Luftwaffe reports on downed Lavochkins

[Kjetil Aakra]

Franek, you do make some of the most ill-informed, yet funny, posts on this forum!

I'm not trying to prove anything really, since my points should be clear to most by now. Of course certain late-war Soviet aircraft were on par with Western ones! It has nothing to do with "Stalinist propaganda", something you would know if you weren't blinded by your Polish nationalist propaganda.

I don't get your reference to your Soviet hardware at home, are you talking about household appliances or are you saying that you have a real La-7 at home???? Otherwise I cannot see the relevance of your statement. Or are you really saying that a WWII La-7 is bad because you have a kitchen blender that dosn't quite work for you?

You are a master of turning things around (which you need to be since your arguments are usually so inherently bad og faulty).

Your original statement "the main difference between La-5FN and La-7 was in internal structure" is wrong. The main difference is external, as I said. Find some good drawings, liker in Erik Pilawskii's book on VVS fighter colours, and see for yourself.

I didn't say that there was no structural difference between them (so here you are actually lying unless you retract that statement), I said that the majority of this was external.

Kjetil (slightly amused)

[Franek Grabowski]

Kjetil
As I wrote earlier, I cannot understand what you are trying to prove. The main difference between La-5FN and La-7 was a metal spar and this was the reason of the new designation. Otherwise it would have been called like La-5FNb or something like that.
Concerning Soviet hardware, I have some aircraft parts of various origin in my collection. Unfortunatelly it turned impossible for me to acquire a complete seat for La, but I am crossing fingers I will get it one day. So, I know what I am talking about, when I say that Soviet hardware was inferior. Frankly, it often looks so awful, the one does not want to touch it!
Thus said, such Soviet fighters like Spitfire or Kingcobra certainly were on par with Western aircraft, but Soviet designs were not. Soviet propaganda tried to prove otherwise and found some followers in kind of Pilawski, but the facts are undeniable. Both Kingcobras and Spitfires were in Soviet service in the early 1950s, long time after Soviet designs were phased out. Kingcobra, while tested against ultimate Yak-9P turned superior, still being much older design. It was mentioned on very this forum some time ago, but apparently you are not interested in facts, if you repeat what you wrote previously.

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by yogybär

I think (!), that the differentiation kalender mentions (from Barkhorn's units report) was based mainly on stuff like "Red nose" of Guards units etc. Definitely it was not possible for a fighter pilot to differentiate between La5FN and F during a normal fight. La7 is a bit easier because of cooler-inlet-position.

Jörg, this "red nose" story is another nonsence from JG6 report.
First, we can not really established the discrepancy of quality of soviet figther in dependency to which unit they belong, guard or not. E.g. in 2nd Air Army most units was guard, but in 16th air army they wasn't.

Second, not all guard unit has the "red nose" and vice versa, not all "red nose" was guard. In the same regiment the 1st squadron could painted the nose in red, the 2nd squadron in yellow and the 3rd in blue...

Regards

[John Manrho]

Just my two cents...... in the ranks of JG 6, especially with I./JG 6, there were still a lot of pilots with experience on the Eastern front. Within I./JG 6 several pilots had flown numerous missions with I./ZG 1 in Russia. I./ZG 1 became later I./ZG 26 and then I./JG 6. Also in II. and III. Gruppe were several pilots who had seen combat on the eastern front in other units before.

cheers,

John.

Ps. I am not familiar with difference between La-5 and La-7, so I can not comment on the validity of the report itself.

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

Just my two cents...... in the ranks of JG 6, especially with I./JG 6, there were still a lot of pilots with experience on the Eastern front. Within I./JG 6 several pilots had flown numerous missions with I./ZG 1 in Russia. I./ZG 1 became later I./ZG 26 and then I./JG 6. Also in II. and III. Gruppe were several pilots who had seen combat on the eastern front in other units before.

Hi John,

IIRC you write the book about JG6 ? Could I ask you, when it appears ?

My assumption was, that after more then one year figthing in the west, not many pilots survive from I./ZG1... But I suppose you are better inform as me

Best regards

[John Beaman]

Kjetil and Franek:

Let’s keep it nice and on subject which is Luftwaffe reports on LaGGs. If you keep up the personal attacks, I’ll lock the thread.

[HGabor]

Hi Igor,

this is very interesting. Can you tell me which IAPs used different colors to mark the spinners of their 3 squadrons? Would be especially interested in the 5th and 17th VVS, - if any. Thanks,

Gabor

[Evgeny Velichko]

Differences:

LaGG-3 (german identificate this as LaGG-3 or just LaGG)


La-5 - La-5F (german identificate La-5 as LaGG-5 or LaGG-9)


La-5F - La-5FN (german identificate this as La-5)


La-5FN - La-7 (german identificate this as La-5 or very rare as La-7)


As You can see, there is lack of visual differences between La5FN and La-7, and it was very easy to misidentificate.

About colour marking of spinnercowl - AFAIK, there are following colours in Polk (equal german Gruppe) - as it was in 9 GvIAP:
1 Eskadrilya (Staffel) - red
2 Eskadrilya (Staffel) - blue
3 Eskadrilya (Staffel) - Yellow

At least red cowl markings of La-7 were used in following regiments:
2 GvIAP,9 GvIAP, 32 GvIAP, 41 GvIAP, 63 GvIAP, 111 GvIAP, 176 GvIAP.

A little OT: 2 Franek Grabowski:

...thus allowing pilot to concentrate on combat, Soviet aircraft still required a lot of manual adjusting. Eg. young pilots often set their radiators fully open just to avoid overheating...

You are NOT right. I can proove it, if You want.
According veterans memories, it was not serious problem to control manually all sistems in dogfight for them even when they were very young and unexpirienced pilots because it was so well trained IN EVERY pilot school, that in dogfight could swich all controls "automatically", without loosing concentration.

MAY be You are thinking that La-5 & La-7 was a "bad" fighter... But german pilots, who was shot down by La's, disagree with You And dont forget that top scored Allied ace was pilot of La-5, La-5FN and La-7 - I.N.Kogedub.

[Jens]

IIRC there were at least 40 changes between La-5FN and La-7. But i think it's right to say that in Germany this would be a letter behind the type designation.

Bad quality of parts shouldn't get to the assumption, the soviet planes hadn't good aerodynamics. In german reports about captived planes is stated, that british and soviet planes had in general worse quality in production, but this cannot be said about aerodynamic parts. Such differences were one of the reasons for the higher production figures of the allied industries. (Source: Budraß)

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by Eugen Gross

At least red cowl markings of La-7 were used in following regiments:
2 GvIAP,9 GvIAP, 32 GvIAP, 41 GvIAP, 63 GvIAP, 111 GvIAP, 176 GvIAP.

According the veteran memo, in 41 GIAP only the 3rd squadron has a red cowl, the other squadron has another colour(Alekseev from 41 GIAP)

2Gabor. Unfortenately I has not any details about the planes of 17 Air Army.