Wilde Sau with twin engined fighters.

[SES]

Originally Posted by George Hopp

Well, that aspect was handled in the introduction to the day-by-day actions: "Because few night fighters were equipped with on-board radar the hunt or pursuit night fighting tactics could be employed only to a limited extent."

My question would be, what radar that wasn't being jammed did they have that they were able to equip a dozen a/c? The Li B/C and C1 were being jammed, and the Li 220 wasn't yet available. So, else did they have?

Dear George,
I am getting more and more convinced that my issue is a matter of wrong terminology. Attached is an extract from a staff meeting in I JK 20 OCT 1943. Here it stated how important it is to have the SN 2 fitted to the nightfighters, since it is a requirement for the conduct of WILDE SAU. The SN 2 was being pressed into service since it worked in a frequency band, which for a while at least, was unaffected by allied ECM, and hence it would greatly enhance the ability to conduct Zahme Sau. I would suggest in the KTB for Wilde Sau please read Zahme Sau throughout at least up to 1 NOV 1943.
bregds
SES

[George Hopp]

Yes, you are correct about the problem with terminology, but it does not alter the fact that so few a/c flew on Tame Sow, or "pursuit", operations (as translated in the I JK diary) because of the lack of SN 2 radars.

I had posted a note earlier, which seems to have disappeared, that yes, a few SN 2s would have been available in the fall of 1943 by having Telefunken change production from the FuG 213 to the FuG 220. But, rather than carrying the huge nose antennas we are used to seeing, they would have carried wing antennas. This was the SN 2 Model 0.

I did have a listing of SN 2 production from summer of 1943, but, of course, now that I am looking for it, I cannot find it.

However, I do have a report which shows that I JK had, as of 18.2.44, the following: of its 110 Ju 88s, 17 were outfitted with SN 2; and of 234 Bf 110s, 126 were outfitted with SN 2. So, entering the spring of 1944, less than half of the a/c directly protecting the heart of Greater Germany were outfitted with SN 2. And, of the a/c so equipped, the majority were the Bf 110s which didn't have the range for extended Tame Sow operations.

Oh, and on 22.2.44, II JK declared a single night fighting unit, NJG 4. It had ca. 49 machines, of which 7 were Do 217s with Wendestein, 2 Bf 210s (sic) shadow a/c, and the rest Bf 110s. This unit had 17 SN 2 sets installed, of which 2 were being repaired.

[SES]

Hi George,
Since you do not seem to too happy about accepting my argument, maybe you listen to the grand old man of night fighter research (Herr Gebhard Aders), when he responded in a PM to my statement above:

"Correct!

It's sometime "hair-rising", what you will find in original documents! And very misleading! "Beppo" Schmidt used "Wilde Sau" instead of "Zahme Sau".
Sure!
bregs
Gebhard"

bregds
SES

[SES]

Hi,
I found that the subject deserved a dedicated page on GYGES, please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/luftwaffe%20nigh...umn%201943.htm
bregds
SES

[George Hopp]

Hi George,
Since you do not seem to too happy about accepting my argument, maybe you listen to the grand old man of night fighter research (Herr Gebhard Aders), when he responded in a PM to my statement above:

I aplogize for not responding sooner but I have been out of town. I'm not quite certain what argument of yours I have not accepted. I agreed that the terminology used by headquarters was incorrect. And, I agreed that, as noted in the introduction to the diary of I JK for the last half of Sept. 43, that the reason for so few Tame Sow sorties was the lack of SN2 equipped fighters. And, I went on to show that even by Febr. 1944, SN 2 equipped fighters comprised less that 1/2 of the operational night fighter forces that were used in those operations. What else was there?

It's nice that you are adding a sub-section of your site to this subject. Unfortunately, my old eyes are having problems in reading the yellow-on-black of your site, and since printing it out doesn't work, I have had to restrict my reading of what appears to be an excellent site.

[SES]

Hi George,
Let me the repeat the essence here:
A review of the locations of claims and kills by the twin engined fighters would be a good indication of the type of Verfahren employed. So based on the KTB the sheet below was compiled. It is a summary of night operations based on the KTB of I JK and RAF Bomber Command War Diary , please see below.

Summary of operations SEP - NOV 1943.

and the locations of kills by twin engined fighters was plotted based on Claims and casualties., please see below:

Kills on nights of Main Force attacks SEP - NOV 1943.

It is evident, that there must have been some twin engined fighters employed on Wilde Sau on some nights, but the long dispersion of kill positions before and after the target also clearly indicate Zahme Sau employment.

bregds
SES