More Questions about Hurricanes

[paulmcmillan]

Graham

The aircraft were all taken from existing stock held at either
5 M.U. Kemble or 20 M.U. Aston Down

[Alex Smart]

Hello to you All,
Many thanks for your input.

Re info, F.K.Mason in his now old book by Macdonalds has on page 155 that these hurricanes were destined for Poland but were diverted to the Middle East.

Anyway from what I have gleaned from this discussion and from other books and websites.

RAF Finnish
Serial Serial
N2322 HU459
N2323 HU458
N2324 HU460
N2325 HU461 = OH-IPK, Force landed Scotland 28-2-40(? 29th).
N2327 HU457 = Crashed 3-6-1940 pilot V. Pinomaa killed.
N2347 HU462 = OH-IPL, Crashed in Norway 2-3-40.
N2348 HU454 = Photo shows Snow Ski undercarrage fitted.
N2350 HU455 = OH-IPE
N2392 HU456
N2393 HU451
N2394 HU452 = OH-IPB
N2395 HU453 = Lost 25-6-1941 pilot A. Teuri, killed.

It is said that the book from Air Britain Archive Special number 5 has all the answers and is more reliable than the new Koala book but as I have neither I do not know which has the best info.
Looking forward to further answers

All the very best
Many thanks
Alex

[paulmcmillan]

Alex

I have asked on AB-IX if anyone can look up Archive Special Number 5

ISBN 0 85130 199 1 Complete Finland Since 1926 by E. Ritaranta & T. Makinen published in 1992

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Hi Stig

I suppose your source for the civil Hurricane registrations is the article by Kari Stenman in Air Enthusiast? I have been looking at the picture published in the article, and to me no former civil registration is visible. Incidentally when Stenman published the same photo the first time, he didn't see any registration either... To state that civil registrations were necessary to pass Sweden is possibly correct, but on every photo I have seen, on Brewsters, Moranes, Lysanders, DC-2 etc, none is visible. All aeroplanes carried full Finnish serial number and the only caution taken was to paint out the Finnish military insignia making it into a white roundel.
These aeroplanes were assembled in a couple of places (Trollhattan, Gothenburg and Malmo airfields) and also passed a couple of military bases on their way to Finland. Photography was prohibited, so there are not many pictures that has survived. Of course I have not seen any Hurricane shots taken in Sweden... . But as I said, I am the first to be happy if anyone can provide a civil registered Hurricane in Sweden!!!
Black and white will do just fine...

I have civil codes list directly from Kari Stenman, this is one list of HUs codes. There is second one printed in, if right remembr, in Finnish book about planes codes, which sligtly different from Kari's ones.

So far I do not seen the Hurri with black letter on the fuselage too, but I say agian on HU460 is visible very weak, but I see it, the siluettes of black latters.

This photo was done after coming to Finland (it is given in my book too), Maybe not all planes had got (?). Maybe very fast, after coming, were simple removed by crews. So noone had the camera to make photos first and we assuming about this, :-).

The planes, in my opinion, only overfly over Sweeden, without any intermediate landing there. It was direct flight from Norway to Finland over Sweeden.

BTW in the book about Hurricanes and Gladiator by Stenman and Keskinen it is done only color drawing of one such Hurricane, but this of course are not supported by hard evidence - photo (OH-IPL on HU460) with visible letters. The backgroud for this drawing is the photo of HU460 with very weak visible, outline of the latters, mentioned earlier.

Next. There is 2 photos of Blenheim in LeR 4 book (the same authors), where on FAF's Blenheim I (BL-134) are painted the black letter OH-IPA, see page 6 and 8.

So it is most probably that civil codes were used only for transfer flight no matters about flying types - to "cover" military of the planes - neutrality of Sweden. Maybe it could be painted on a few not all planes which overflown Sweden.

Regards
Mirek W

PS
I think, but this could be wrong, that on the FAF's Lysanders, there were cachted the civil registration too, this is only my assumption. I think that a few years ago I have see such photos with this type (?).

[paulmcmillan]

Mirek

Can you please publish your civil cide/HU list?

Thanks

Paul

[paulmcmillan]

ISBN 0 85130 199 1 Complete Finland Since 1926 by E. Ritaranta & T. Makinen published in 1992 Air Britain Archive Special Number 5


"Wartime Military OH-Registrations

During the Winter War 1939-1940 imported military aircraft were given a civil-like radio call-sign, and in many cases it was stenciled onto the aircraft. Registrations OH-IPA to OH-IPL were mostly used. The following are known:

OH-IPA Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-122
Bristol Blenheim MK.I BL-134
Westland Lysander Mk.I LY-

OH-IPB Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-123
Westland Lysander Mk.I LY-

OH-IPC Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-124

OH-IPD Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-125
Bristol Blenheim MK.I BL-137

OH-IPE Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-126
Hawker Hurricane Mk.I HU-

OH-IPF Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-127

OH-IPG Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-128

OH-IPH Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-129

OH-IPI Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-130

OH-IPJ Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-131

OH-IPK Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-132

OH-IPL Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV BL-133
Hawker Hurricane Mk.I HU-460

Evidently even more Blenheim’s, Lysander’s and Hurricane’s ferried in these batches were carrying visible markings"

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi All

As I said, there is no evidence there were any physical markings of these "civil regs" when passing Sweden. The Lysanders for example, where many were assembled Torslanda (GOT airport at the time), none are visible.

They were certainly applied as radio call signs, which does not mean they had to apply them physically on the aeroplane.

I still don't agree that they are faintly visible (painted out) on HU 460 even if the paint work could make a slight resemblance. I am not convinced until I get a photo of one with the radio call signs applied.

I don't believe any were applied to aeroplanes assembled or landed in Sweden. Not one single photo appears which proves any were applied. Possibly it could be true for aeroplanes just overflying the country....
so again, just give me proof!

Cheers
Stig

[Alex Smart]

Hello Stig,

I agree that there have been no photographic evidence that I know of that the Hurricanes in question ever wore the OH-IPA to OH-IPL markings.Although the one that crashed on the delivery flight has the very sections of fuselage torn off where it would most likely have been applied.

These codes may well have been allotted but never applied to the aircraft in the case of the Hurricanes.

This may also have applied to the Lysanders too.

But I do have in books photos of the Blenheims which do have the OH-IPA markings .( Additional, I have read somewhere that the code was "OH-IBA" and not "OH-IPA".

Further though not the same,the Gladiators had the serial numbers applied under the lower wings in the early photos, I assume pre Winter War.

Keep up the good work.

Alll the best
Alex