Il-2 pilots with 10 or more aerial kills

[knusel]

Good morning James,

is it easy to discern from a Ju 87 or Il-2 if a tank that you have attacked is destroyed or not ?

I wish you a good start into the weekend,

Michael

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by knusel

is it easy to discern from a Ju 87 or Il-2 if a tank that you have attacked is destroyed or not ?

The history or armoured warfare would suggest that tanks thought to be destroyed were very often disabled but could be recovered and repaired. Fire or explosion are probably reliable indicators of destruction. However, a hit that brings a tank to halt although of immediate tactical value — removing an enemy asset from fighting in progress — may not have destroyed it altogether.

[James A Pratt III]

A knocked out tank if recovered can be repaired unless it is burnt out or catstropic kill as they say.

I would say that many Soviet tanks the Luftwaffe destroyed at the battle of Brody in 1941 had either broke down or ran out of fuel. As for the VVS during the Moscow counter offensive during the winter of 1941/42 they probably attacked and claimed knocked out many tanks that were destroyed or lost in the 1941 German offensives.

In reading Glantz's Stalingrad Endgame books there were times where the luftwaffe and ARR did destroy a number of Soviet tanks specificaly during operation winterstorm. They also inflicted some heavy casualties on men and horses of Soviet Cavalry divisions.

In the book Panzer Battles p341 it menions the German 8th Panzer Division taking heavy tank and truck losses do to VVS air attacks on 14 jul 44 on the Zlochuv-Jerierni road.

On the Axishistoryfroum.com in the USSR 1917-1945 section I found a post that lead me to an article on the Churchill in RKKA service. 6 July 43 at Kursk the 36th GHTR had 8 Churchills destroyed 1 of which by air attack.

I may have more.

[knusel]

Some tank killer scores of 100+ are known:

Il-2 Tank Killers
Jefimov, Aleksandr - 126

Stuka Tank Killers
Hans-Ulrich Rudel – 519
Anton Hübsch – 120+
Gerhard Studemann – 117
Alois Wosnitza – 104
Jacob Jenster – 100+
Hendrik Stahl – 100+

Tank Aces (mostly with Tigers)
Kurt Knispel – 168 (126-gunner, 42-commander)
Johannes Bolter – 139
Michael Wittmann – 138 (+132 ATs)
Paul Egger - 113
Heinrich Rondorf – 106 (gunner and commander)
Heinz Gartner – 103 (gunner and commander)
Karl Korner – 102
Balthasar Woll – 101+ (81-gunner, 20+-commander)
Wilhelm Knauth - 101
Albert Kerscher – 100+

Taking your assessment above into consideration, these scores are rather to be taken with a pinch of salt, correct ?

[James A Pratt III]

From AFV News Jan-Apr 1991 Vol 26 #1
Losses in the Soviet 1823 SPAR Jun-Sep 1944 This unit as a part of the 3rd GMC in Belorussia 25 June 1944 had 8 trucks destroyed by air attack 1 EM KIA 8 WIA 6 Officers WIA.

From my notes from Tigers in Combat Vol II

PD GD Jun44 2 Tigers destroyed by fighter bombers
Oct 44 5 destroyed by a Luftwaffe air strike

Panzer Battles

5 Jul 44 the 48th PK lost many tanks do to the VVS

As for the Panther tanks that were making their combat debut this day it was a disaster. The tanks had numerous mechanical problems, the crews were poorly trained and the units that had them had arrived at the front shortly before the offensive began. The units had 2 of them catch fire on the route march to the front. The units attacked right into a undiscovered Soviet minefield where they were shot up by anti-tank guns and artillery. Later on this day some got stuck in bogs. No record of any of them being attacked by aircraft.

[James A Pratt III]

This is from my notes from Panzertruppen 1943-1945 Thomas Jentz

Panthers operational
5 jul 184
6 jul 166
7 jul 40
8 jul unknown
9 jul 16
10 jul 10
11 jul 30
12 Jul 25
13 jul 43
14 Jul 36

from the book "Steel Inferno" Michael Reynolds

The Panzer Lehr PD 6 June 44 got badly hit by Allied aircraft according to it's commander it had 5 tanks knocked out along with 84 halftracks, prime movers and SP guns. It also lost 40 trucks carrying fuel and 90 others.

A Allied survey of knocked out German tanks in August 1944 Of 44 tanks (34 Panthers and 10 Pz IVs)20 were knocked out by ground fire 7 by rockets 2 by bombs 4 by multiple causes and 11 abandoned or destroyed by there crews.
In another area where the LAH operated near St Barthelemy 17 panthers were found . 6 were knocked out by army weapons 4 by air force rockets, and the rest blown up or abandoned by their crews.

[knusel]

Hello James,

hope you have a good weekend.

Do you think there will ever be a OSPREY COMBAT AIRCRAFT volume about the Henschel Hs 129 ? Below you find a list about its most successful pilots.

Cheers,

Michael

Top Hs 129 Tank Killers

• Rudolf-Heinz Ruffer - ~80 (~300 missions on Hs 129)
• Otto Ritz - ~70 (100+ missions on Hs 129)
• Hans-Hermann Steinkamp - ~70 (~300 missions on Hs 129)
• Bruno Meyer - ~50 (~150 missions on Hs 129)
• Franz Oswald – 50 (300+ missions on Hs 129)

[James A Pratt III]

In looking through warspot.ru tanks section it mentions in some of the articles about RKKA units coming under air attack ect

Battle Battery of the Dead Myth and Reality has the 18th Tank Corps in the period 20-23 Sept 1944 having 21 AFVs destroyed by air attack possibly by 14/SG 4 Hs 129s and 10/SG2 Ju 87G

The Russians had a major problem with tanks breaking down in the 1941-43 period things got somewhat better in 1944-45. I have read that one RKKA officer said one reason they RKKA like the M-4 Sherman and Valentine tanks is they were so mechanically reliable compared to Soviet tanks.

[HGabor]

Well, this is a hard question. Between 15-30 September, 1944 the 53rd Army, 18th Tank Corps lost the following combat vehicles:

25 T-34s burned out (including 12 T-34s in AIR ATTACK) from the 110 (markings: '4xx'), 170 ('5xx'), 181 ('6xx') Tank Brigades, but mainly from the 110 Tank Brigade.
15 T-34s KOd
4 SU-85 SPGs burned out
1 SU-85 SPG KOd
5 ISU-122 SPGs burned out (ALL 5 in AIR ATTACK) - 363 GvTSAP
.................................................. .................................

So this is 'only' 17 machines lost in German air attacks in the whole second half of September, not just for September 20-23, 1944.
(Source: ЦАМО, Ф.409, Оп.10057, Д.458, Л.25.)

Gabor

[James A Pratt III]

The article has the 5 SU-85 SPGs burned out by air attack as well