Force-landed Typhoon information needed...

[Chris Thomas]

In answer to some of the points raised by recent correspondents ...

Kyrre, Typhoon spinners in the summer of 1944 should have been 'Sky' but many were black - it seems that some at least came off the production line that way. Others are indeterminate - shades somewhere between sky and black - some of which may have been one of the camouflage colours.

Kutscha, I did not mean that the 'dust cloud' explained the difference in shades between the letters and the band - but that any comparisons are complicated by its presence and any conclusions would be even less viable than those normally made from the study of monochrome photos.

SMF144 (Stephen), thanks for the support. I agree the colour change could be caused by removal or just fresh or wrong paint and only the discovery of a USAAF photographer who found himself on an RAF Normandy strip with a few shots of Kodachrome to finish his film will solve the matter. As Stephen says, the thoughtless repetition of incorrect information leads to its eventual acceptance ... which is precisely the reason the 'red letters' wind me up. (And Stephen, don't think 143 Wing is safe - 439 Sqn's website now features a profile of one of their Typhoons with (oh yes!) red code letters!)

Franek, the dates for the arrival on 198 Sqn of the Typhoons featured are not known precisely as The Forms 78 (movement cards) in this period had only just returned to recording allocations to 2nd TAF units and, as the dates are always at weekly intervals, it seems a report of aircraft held by each unit was submitted each week. So ... MN526 week ending 22 June, MN880 and MN882 week ending 29 June. My guess is that they would have had full stripes - so - as someone said earlier - there would be little point in painting on letters and immediately painting over them with stripes. So, on balance fresh paint looks the more likely ....

No photos of the port side of these Typhoons, or others of the unit in July/August have come to light. However there are several 198 Sqn aircraft featured in the Film taken on D-Day at Thorney Island and these all have 'TP' forward of the roundel on the port side and the individual letter painted over by the stripes. This is why 'TP' and the individual letters appear in miniature form on the starboard and port noses (and or tails) respectively.

Someone mentioned Profile 81 as a source - well I think this one is well past its 'sell-by' date. The series was exciting and ground-breaking in its time and inspired many enthusiasts' interest in markings - but alas many faults can be found in the drawings with todays standards of research. The 'profiles' in the F.K.Mason Typhoon book do not 'hold water' either, with many errors evident. JP963 'TP-T' which is mentioned is also the subject of a photo and to my mind shows no indication of red letters. See attachment (interesting spinner colours!).

Finally, DP-H MN602 (later research shows this was actually JP802) is a bit of a red herring as this unit (193 Sqn) never seemed to be sure where to put its letters. All 198 Sqn photos show the most common pattern ie. squadron letters forward on the port side and aft on the starboard.

[SMF144]

Chris, et al

I too have noticed dark coloured spinners on Typhoons during the Liberation of North West Europe, especially in Normandy, but they are not the only ones to have had this anomaly. I have seen a private snap of a bomb carrying RAF Mustang III taken on the Normandy beachhead with its spinner painted black. The only reason why I think this was done was simply for the reason of camouflage. To give you an idea, I was lucky enough to have seen Black 6 fly on a sunny day during the Flying Legends Air show at Duxford in 1996. When the pilot was coming at the crowd from afar, all I could see in the blue sky was the white spinner and wing tips. So my best educated guess is that some of the pilots engaged in ground attack work most likely had their spinners darkened so they wouldn’t stand out like a sore thumb for the flak gunners. I realize this was carried out against orders, but when your life is on the line…

Unless we get a consensus from the ground crews and pilots of these planes as to why this was done, we’ll probably never know unless “we” come across primary source material related to this. But, who has time to wade through all the paper at the PRO?

Regards,

[brewerjerry]

Hi,
Slightly O/T ?,
But i often wonder if the luftwaffe did crash reports on RAF a/c that came down, in occupied territory, these might hold a few answers. presumably these would be in germany and not held in the AHB ?
The PRO/NA A.I.2 (g) files on the crashed luftwaffe a/c the RAF found, are a very interesting read, and give lots of info on camo / colours / codes / equipment and are located in only a few files, ( apart form the few mis filed ones )
Cheers
Jerry