Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 7th February 2024, 10:30
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1484

19. The satellite airfield of Stavanger-Forus, Norway, was located 4.5 km. ENE of the main Stavanger-Sola fliegerhorst. It was here in May 1945 that most of the captured Arado Ar 234s were being stored, and because of unauthorized flights in Germany, the rudders of German jets in British hands were removed instead of propellers. In this photo of Arados still in their German markings, there is one aircraft near the far end of the line-up that is wearing the winter camouflage of KG 76.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1485

20. This is W.Nr. 140596 "F1+HT" (yellow "H") that was flown to Sola on 5 May 1945 from Leck, Germany, probably by Ltn. Alfred Frank of 9./KG 76 (see Jan Horn, KG 76 Die Chronik ..., (2019), p. 309). Note the positions of the nosewheels.


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1486

21. The hilly background, white posts for wire fencing and the irregular concrete slabs with gaps of vegetation identify photos taken at Forus. On its starboard side, Ar 234 B-2 "F1+HT" (yellow "H") shows a distinctive winter camo pattern. Both this jet and the Arado beside it lack the nacelle fairings and racks for the long-range auxilliary fuel tanks that are seen on the recce Arados.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 7th February 2024, 10:52
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1487

22. This photo shows that the winter camouflage has been sprayed on, and there is a yellow "H" on the nosewheel bracket. The Arado beside it has a yellow "F" and a balkenkreuz with a black centre. The yellow is clearly distinct from the RLM 21 white of the balkenkreuz.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1488

23. On 24 September 1945, Hptm. Helmut Miersch of 1./FAGr 1 flew W.Nr. 140596 out of Stavanger, accompanied by Lt. Cdr. (RN) Eric Brown in a recce Arado. They staged through Grove-Karup, Denmark, to Schleswig-Jägel, Germany. Both pilots took off from Schleswig bound for Melsbroek, Belgium, at about 17:45 hrs. on 3 October 1945 but soon encountered heavy sea fog. Separated by poor visibility, Brown turned back and landed inland at Nordholz. Miersch, however, was forced to make an emergency landing on the short, cratered airstrip at Eelde, Netherlands, probably using his drogue chute for braking. This photo show W.Nr. 140596 at Eelde. Both engines had been previously swapped out for those with fairings and racks from a recce aircraft. As well, the periscope had been removed.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1489

24. Unable to be flown out, according to Smith & Creek, Ar 234 Blitz, (Classic, 2022), p. 311, it was handed over to the No. 417 Repair and Salvage unit for disposal. Are those Canadian patches on the uniforms?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 7th February 2024, 13:14
AndyMa AndyMa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Lincoln UK
Posts: 438
AndyMa is on a distinguished road
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Regarding photo 21 (or rather the typed info on that photo), I thought that:
140491 was 9V+BH
140493 was 9V+CH
I don't have any proof either way, can someone confirm please?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10th February 2024, 19:49
Chrisyates Chrisyates is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
Chrisyates is on a distinguished road
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Hi Andy, you are correct. Smith & Creek Pg 311 (and numerous other sources)
140491 9V+BH
140493 9V+CH
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 14th February 2024, 11:43
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

Hi Chris and Andy,

As far as I know, there is no documentary "proof" as to their identities. In a future post I will explain why I think W.Nr. 140493 is neither 9V+BH nor 9V+CH.

Jim

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1491

25. On Pinterest, this photograph is captioned "poor quality snap of a 297 Sqn RAF crew posing with a captured Ar 234."
On 25 April 1945, Ltn. Alfred Frank of 9./KG 76 flew a feindflug from Kaltenkirchen in Arado Ar 234 B-2 W.Nr. 140343 "F1+FT" (yellow "F"), according to Horn, p. 299. Uffz. Ludwig Rieffel, of the same staffel, took off in the rain from Leck, Germany, in this jet at 06:45 hrs. on the morning of 5 May 1945. He landed at Stavanger-Sola, Norway, at 07:33 hrs. (Horn, p. 309 probably quoting his flugbuch). It was one of the two remaining Arado bombers to reach Norway, presumably both in the green splinter camouflage. This photo of W.Nr. 140596 "F1+HT" was probably taken at Stavanger-Forus with "F1+FT" in the background.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 14th February 2024, 12:36
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1492

26. This cropping from the third Forus picture shows "F1+FT" in its position beside "F1+HT" in the lineup, the "343" of the werknummer can just be made out. It is in the green splinter camo without a ring of staffel colour on the nacelle cowl and also without fairings or racks below the nacelle.

On 6 June 1945, W.Nr. 140343 was noted as Category D at Sola - serviceable in seven days. It has been surmised by Norwegian historians that W.Nr. 140343 became unserviceable during that summer and that it was "... dismantled, crated and shipped from Sola in October," (cf. https://www.Luftwaffe.no/SIG/1945/Arado.html).


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1493

27. The sixth and last Arado bomber found by British forces at Stavanger on 10 May 1945 was W.Nr 140148, possibly "F1+FR" (white "F"). Although it was rated on June 6 as Category C (serviceable in twelve hours), the above Norwegian source says this:
"During the summer the Allied forces performed evaluation and demonstration flights with the Ar 234 at Sola. The actual flying was done by German pilots. During one of these flights an Ar 234 made a hard down-wind landing resulting in a nosewheel collapse. This was probably Werk-No. 140148, and the machine was written off and scrapped in Norway... ."
This photo probably shows either W.Nr 140343 or 140148 in Norway. Like other bombers we have seen, it lacks the staffel colour ring on the nacelle cowl, and the absence of fairings and racks indicate it was a bomber. The buildings in the background have the same style as those in Forus.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 21st February 2024, 11:09
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

"In addition to the damaged 140148, another damaged Ar 234 was also present. Information and photos indicated that this machine had been deliberately damaged on 7. May before the German capitulation in Norway. this was probably Werk-No. 140491. Together with 140148 it was scrapped before the British forces left Norway in November," cf. https://www.Luftwaffe.no/SIG/1945/Arado.html .


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1498

28. In this cropping of the first picture of Forus, Norway, three recce Arado Ar 234 B-2bs can be recognized by their racks for the auxilliary fuel tanks under the engine nacelles. As far as I know, there were already two Arado recce's at Stavanger before 5 May. On 1 May 1945, the recce unit 1./FAGr 5 at Sola was redesignated 1./FAGr. 1 but the two remaining aircraft retained the "9V" code of FAGr. 5. They were "9V+BH" (white "B") and "9V+CH" (presumably white "C"). In this picture, the aircraft that I presume is "9V+CH" has distinctive wide RLM 21 white cowl rings with visible fairings and racks under the nacelle and is immediately to the right of the Arado identified as 140581 "8H+CH" by Creek & Forsyth, Blitz Bombers, (Chandos, 2020), p. 172.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 21st February 2024, 11:29
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1499

29. In this cropping of the third picture of Forus, Norway, showing a gap of two missing aircraft after 140581, "9V+BH" can be seen in the distance with its prominent RLM 21 white letter "B" and, if you look closely, the same wide RLM 21 white cowl rings as the missing aircraft. Smith & Creek in their Arado Ar 234 Blitz, (Classic, 2022), p. 278 identify "9V+BH" as 140491 in their caption of this picture, although I have seen no documentary proof to support this.

As far as I know, there are no pictures of Arados, either bombers or recces, with wide white cowl rings, that were flown either to England or France. Yet three recces with green splinter cowls are known to have flown from Norway to England. They are 140141, 140493 and 140 581 which after arriving at Farnborough were randomly given Air Ministry numbers 227 to 229. This suggests to me that there were five recce and six bomber Arados at Stavanger and due to sabotage on 7 May, one was not repairable when the other ten were categorized for readiness on 6 June, including 140491 that was "Category D". It is possible that "9V+CH" was the one that was sabotaged, not categorized, and also scrapped in Norway.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 28th February 2024, 11:37
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1502

30. There was a recce Arado Ar 234 "CH" that was flown to England, but it did not have white rings on its engine cowls. This photo, taken at Forus, shows an Ar 234 B-2b with a black "C" on its nosewheel bracket. Not only does it have racks under the nacelles but also lines hanging down that hooked in to the auxilliary fuel tanks used for long range missions, the fern in Fernaufkarungsgruppe, ascribed as FAGr. or (F)/ units .
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 28th February 2024, 11:57
Karoband Karoband is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 886
Karoband has a spectacular aura aboutKaroband has a spectacular aura about
Re: Some enlarged and "tweaked" known photos of Ar 234s

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/album....pictureid=1503

31. Phil Butler, on page 4 of the Crecy 2022 edition of War Prizes, captions this photo as, "Arado Ar 234B, WNr 140581, 8H+CH at Stavanger-Sola on 6th August 1945, being ground run for the benefit of the press by surrendered Luftwaffe ground crew...".
Note the extendable step and the point where the auxilliary power cord was plugged in. Creek & Forsyth, in Blitz Bombers, (Chandos, 2020), p. 172, also identify this ircraft as "8H+CH" W.Nr. 140581 of 1.(F)/33, which was missing from those of that unit captured at Grove-Karup, Denmark. This aircraft was possibly flown to Norway on 5 May 1945 by Oblt. Ulrich Planck of 1.(F)/33 from Grove.
It is likely that this was the Arado that "Winkel" Brown transferred on 25 September from Stavanger to Schleswig via Grove. In his log, Brown described the attempted next stage on 3 October:
"Ar 234B 140581 Self - Schleswig to Nordholz after running into sea fog on south bank of Zuider Zee and darkness on the way back again. Fuel very low, pitch black and no lights on Nordholz airfield but made it ok, But Haupt. Miersch down on tiny grass airfield at Eelde, O.K."

On 27, October, Brown returned to Nordholz and staging throug Schleswig and Melsbroek, reached RAE Farnsborough that day in W.Nr. 140581. It was the last Ar 234 to reach England. No longer needed, it was transferred to No. 6 MU at Brize Norton for storage on 6 November 1945 and was struck off charge in October 1948 and listed as scrapped.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net