New Bf109K-4 pictures

[klemchen]

Hi harrison987,

thank you for reminding me that the Mutterkompass was moved to the rear already on late Gs, the round hatch still remaining there. It was not unusual to keep features that had become obsolete, probably in order to avoid confusion within the production process; think e.g. of G-5 cowlings being used on many G-6s and G-14s. But one of the main reasons for introducing the K was standardizing and cleaning up of production procedures; that is why so many "small parts" were changed for the K.
I do not think that the pictures in the K part list are very reliable, because often drawings were simply taken from old lists. The K list contains even some drawings showing the large rectangular hatch in section 5 (instead of the trapezoidal hatch in section 4). On the drawings of the fuselage structure Baugruppe 109.180, p. 26/28, the circular Mutterkompass hatch is deleted (and the smaller circular hatch on the starboard bottom of section 2 present). Surprisingly, there is also a footstep on starboard, although to my knowledge this was omitted on real K-4s.

Best wishes,
klemchen

[Kutscha]

No one knows what the text on the fuel decal is? I am real curious as IV./JG53 was one of the units that had been cleared to use 1.98ata boost which required C3 fuel.

[RolandF]

Unfortunately I don´t have any information about a Bf109 assembly at Wertheim. None of my reference material is listing this site. At least it is not included within the Messerschmitt-Regensburg production web. WNF Vienna seems to be too far for being incorporated. Maybe someone knows about an Erla connection of this site which would lead us on another track.

Is somebody able to identify the aforementioned identical parts on the Bf109K-4 pics? Are they Bf109 or Me 262 parts? I´m asking this because Flossenbürg was intended to produce Me 262 parts in the final months of the war...

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by RolandF

Unfortunately I don´t have any information about a Bf109 assembly at Wertheim. None of my reference material is listing this site. At least it is not included within the Messerschmitt-Regensburg production web. WNF Vienna seems to be too far for being incorporated. Maybe someone knows about an Erla connection of this site which would lead us on another track.

Is somebody able to identify the aforementioned identical parts on the Bf109K-4 pics? Are they Bf109 or Me 262 parts? I´m asking this because Flossenbürg was intended to produce Me 262 parts in the final months of the war...

Hallo Roland,

Just back from holidays, I discover your input. Regarding the issue of an eventual Bf 109 K-4 production line in Wertheim, the just released book of Hideki Noro "LO+ST", published by Dainippon Kaiga, contains three photos of a camouflaged production area labelled "near Wertheim" (p. 100 - 102, photos # 135 - 137). Photo 135 is the often published three quarter left view from the rear of a Bf 109 K-4 standing in a forest, with this now obvious wawy RLM 76 line sprayed alont the lower fuselage camouflage. The second one shows another Bf 109 engineless fuselage standing on its landing gear amidst, according to the caption, the same forest, shot from three quarter right from the front. As this fuselage is covered by a tarpaulin, onle the RLM 76 wawy line gives some kind of an indication this might be also a K-4 fuselage.

The third (picture 137) photo is the most interesting as it shows the entrance of a railroad tunnel with a makeshift wooden door, and six Bf 109 wings either stacked along the siding walls of the tunnel entrance, or fallen on the track. The tunnel entrance is also surrounded by the same forest. If the location is ascertained, this would be a very relevant element for identifiying a production site for Bf 109 K-4's, and as you ask for, for an Erla production.

Interestingly enough, two more pictures (#138 - 139) do probably shed some more informations although their location is not mentionned precisely. The first, (p. 103, # 138) shows at least six Bf 109K-4's fuselages, complete with engines all in-line under the cover of an unfortunately unprecised forest.
The second is a piled up scrap of Bf 109K-4 fuselages, already scanned an posted by Etraro over at LEMB:
http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/fo...showtopic=8421

After checking the Flickr pic with the one published in "LO+ST", IMHO, I would assume they depict the one and same scrap pile, captionned in Flickr as being depicted in Wertheim.

Where are we now? For my part I would venture the educated guess an assembly line of Bf 109K-4's was put up near Wertheim in a railroad tunnel, like the similar DIANA line operated by WNF near Tisnòv for producing Bf 109 G-10's. As to whom may have operated it, I, like you, Roland, am hoping for more informations.

As for the second part of your question, I do only recognize a lone Jumo 213 (?) engine among the piles of Bf 109K-4 fuselages, and, on the right, another fuselage segment stemming from an unidentified plane....

Cheers
Marc

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

If the location is ascertained, this would be a very relevant element for identifiying a production site for Bf 109 K-4's, and as you ask for, for an Erla production.

There isn't any known connection between Erla and Wertheim. Erla and the shifted factories were concentraded in Saxonia/Thuringia.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[Cpt_Farrel]

These photos are very interesting - just got back from vacation - apart from everything discussed so far, did anyone notice that the fuel triangels on some of the 109's are in the wrong position, i.e. on the frame were they should have appeared on 109G's but not K's...

[unikum]

http://i.ebayimg.com/24/!BYG0wQg!2k~...OI-g!~~_12.JPG

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by unikum

http://i.ebayimg.com/24/!BYG0wQg!2k~...OI-g!~~_12.JPG

Unikum,

Thanks for your input. I cannot recognize any clear K-4 feature
on this pic. Any idea where it was taken?

Cheers
Marc

[unikum]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

Unikum,

Thanks for your input. I cannot recognize any clear K-4 feature
on this pic. Any idea where it was taken?

Cheers
Marc

I dont know.I input this foto only for interest
http://cgi.ebay.de/BF-109-K-4-Wrack-...d=p3286.c0.m14

[S Sheflin]

Hello Marc-André,

Unless I am mistaken, this is not a photo of a K-4 taken at Prag in 1945, but rather, it is one of a series of G/AS’s photographed in France in 1944.

Steve Sheflin