Oblt ??? of ZG26 Battle of Britain

[Larry Hickey]

Adam and Brian,

Your additional comments are helpful. Adam, there are several additional photos of the He59 during the rescue, but the quality won't allow a definitive resolution of the full coding on this a/c. NE+TD certainly is a possibility. I hope that "Seaplanes" will jump in here if he has anything to add.

Brian, I'd noted the victory claim. Unfortunately, I've compared the known victory lists for I./ZG26 for the mid-August period, when I think these photos were taken, and almost all of these (11-18 August 1940) are by unknown pilots, and against unknown aircraft types. There is no "Oblt." among the few that are attributed to a specific pilot. However, Hans Ring reconstructed his take on this period with so-called "Turks" (apparently best guess-estimates), but in the several cases that I know of since this was done and subsequent hard info has been developed, these have turned out to be very unreliable (on the order of about 50%). That said, none of the claims listed are for Hurricanes--all are Spitfires, but he does attribute possible victories during this period to Oblt Wilhelm Spies of 1 Staffel (11.08.40, 13.08.40, 18.08.40 {Eng Jäger}); Oblt. Johannes Kiel of 3 Staffel (11.08.40, 13.08.40, 18.08.40 {Eng Jäger}); Oblt. Hans-Jürgen Kirchhoff of 3 Staffel (11.08.40, 13.08.40) and Oblt. Karl Fuchs of 3 Staffel (11.08.40). If both the photo sequence and the van Ishoven account are the same incident, it is very likely that one of these four pilots is the "Oblt." referred to in the account. So, if anyone has any info to support one of these four pilots being shot down and rescued from the Channel or being "injured" during this period, he is very likely the pilot of our plane. Besides the unreliability of the "Turks" attribution in general, it should be noted that I./ZG26 was known for very significant over-claiming of victories during this period, as were pretty much all the ZG units.

Brian, although I don't believe that the account will turn out to be the III./ZG26 ditching in the channel on 25.09.40, we have complete German records for the claimed victories of that unit on that day, and one of the two victories, was to an Oblt., Ernst Matthes, a 7 Staffel pilot who reportedly got a Spitfire SW of Bristol. However, I know of no source indicating that Matthes was shot down into the channel and rescued that day. Perhaps John Vasco has some insight into that issue.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Further to the possible pilots listed in the post above from our EOE Luftwaffe Loss Data Base, I note that Oblt. Karl Fuchs was KIA in a Bf110D-0 on 13.08.40:

"August 13, 1940: 3./ZG26 Messerschmitt Bf110D-0 (3369). Shot down by Hurricanes of No.56 Squadron during escort sortie for Bf110s of ErpGr.210 and exploded over Warden Bay, Sheppey, 4.05 p.m. Probably one of those claimed by F/O P.S. Weaver. FF Oberlt Karl Fuchs and BF Uffz Willi Ebben both killed. Aircraft 100% write-off.

"Due to the severity of this crash the scattered remains of the pilot, Karl Fuchs, were not recovered for three days and only identified from shreds of clothing. Thus, his date of death is incorrectly recorded as August 16 in the Soldatenfriedhof, Cannock Chase. Site excavated by the Kent Battle of Britain Museum which unearthed an undercarriage leg, cannon firing mechanism, oxygen regulator, oxygen bottles, self sealing fuel tank, first aid kit, various maker’s labels and perspex cockpit side panel bearing red painted angle of dive indicator. All now in Hawkinge Aeronautical Trust collection. Relics from this machine previously held by London Air Museum, now in the Tangmere Military Aviation Museum. Steve Vizard also has parts from the first aid kit, cannon-firing bottles and other relics including Werk plates indicating serial number 3369. Surviving engine recovered in 1984 by Peter Smith."

and Oblt. Hans-Jürgen Kirchhoff was KIA when shot down by RAF fighters in a Bf110D-0 on 18.08.40:

"August 18, 1940: 3./ZG26 Messerschmitt Bf110D-0. Badly damaged by fighters during bomber escort sortie over southern England and crashed in the Channel off French coast 1.40 p.m. FF Oberlt Hans-Jürgen Kirchhoff and BF Lt Berthold Mader (of I/Ln.Rgt.32) both killed. Aircraft 100% write-off."

If the photo series shows an earlier incident involving either of these pilots, it is of note that both were flying replacement aircraft when killed. The photo sequence appears to show a Bf110C in all-green camouflage on the upper surfaces, probably a plane dating back to the original equipment of the unit with Bf110Cs. If either of these pilots was our ditching subject, he couldn't have been very badly injured, nor could Spies or Kiel (if the incident was prior to 18 August), as all were in combat again during the period. The report on Kirchhoff's death indicates that he wasn't flying with his original gunner. This suggests the idea that his regular gunner might have been recently injured in an earlier incident and was therefore unable to fly on the 18th.

Nothing conclusive here, but possibly small pieces of the puzzle.

Regards,

[udf_00]

Same event depicted in "Der Adler" of 1 Oct 1940.
If I understand correctly, the pics are credited to a Kisselbach of the PropagandaKompanie.
One picture of the low-flying Bf110 has cliffs in the background.
There is at least one motor-boat, with an awful zebra camo, involved in the rescue.
None of the He59 pictures shows the NE+?? code, but one shows the ??+TD code.

One of the pics of the ditched Bf110 with the raised tail appears in
Their Finest Hour : The Story of the Battle of Britain 1940 by Edward Bishop,
the source is given as Sudd. Verlag, (Süddeutscher Verlag in Munich ?)

[Adam]

This would then seem to confirm my earlier suspicion that the aircraft in question was HE 59 NE+TD (WNr 1991). Unfortunately I don't have any details pertaining to this machine's service history.

[Larry Hickey]

Udf,

I don't have the 1 Oct 1940 issue of "Der Adler." Do you have a scanner and would it be possible to get a scan of the photo which shows the motor-boat, and the one showing the code ??+TD on the He59? I'm considering that one for a color profile for the EOE Project. Neither of these were in the series in the "Signaal" issue that I have.

Regards,

[Brian Bines]

NE+TD w.n 1991 Ff Fw Kurt Grafe, B Ofw Herbert Roddey, Bf Ogef Gerhard Fischer Bm Fw Rudolf Grimmig missing over Channel in Luftkamf on 11-11-1940. Believed fell to P/O's Barclay and Wells of 249 Sqd. (GQM report dated 13-11-1940 )

[udf_00]

No scan, only these low-res :

[Larry Hickey]

udf,

Thanks! That confirms the ID of the He59. There are apparently some photos in the "Der Adler" article that are not in the one in "Signaal." Is there any info in the DA article that gives us any more clues as to the possible date or story of the incident?

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Brian,

Thanks, with this info and the photos sent by udf, this makes a likely candidate for a color profile for SNFlKdo 3 for the August, 1940 period. Obviously still lacking the exact date and info on the crew picked up/plane shot down.

I now have the translation of the SNFlKdo 2 KTB entries for 25-26.09.40 and, although there are several flights and alerts for rescue activities by the unit's He59s, there is no indication of the pick up of a downed Bf110 crew. It does not appear that the unit's aircraft rescued any downed pilots in the channel that day. In re-reading the loss incident:

"Sept. 25, 1940: III./ZG26 Messerschmitt Bf110C-4 (3263). Crashed in the Channel during combat with RAF fighters south of Weymouth during escort sortie for KG55 attack on Filton 12.00 p.m. Crew rescued unhurt by Seenotdienst. Aircraft 100% write-off."

it doesn't actually say that the crew was picked up by an aircraft, but simply "Seenotdienst." That could also mean by a patrol boat or other unit asset besides an He59. Although this doesn't absolutely preclude an He59 rescue by another unit, I think that event is now quite unlikely. This satisfies me that the Sept. 25th incident in NOT the same story as the "Oblt." down in the van Ishoven story, leaving us with an unrecorded or inaccurately reported 1 or 3./ZG26 Bf110 loss for the August, 1940, period.

As we get the available KTBs for channel activity on Sept. 25th, we'll keep an eye out for the possibility that one of the other SNFlKdo units was involved in a Bf110 crew pick up that day.

Regards,

[Brian]

Thanks Larry

Cheers
Brian