Spitfire K9820 and others.

[roger_henderson]

Hello,
I have an amendment to this for you. 01-04-1942 Supermarine Spitfire Vb AD377 (QV-?), 19 Sqn, aircraft lost due to engine failure during a landing approach to RAF Ludham, Norfolk. The aircraft went into Hinkley Broad where it still lies as far as I am able to establish. F/O Rudolf Borovec(Czech), RAF No.81885 was not much the worse for wear but, comically, was seen walking down the runway soaking wet.
Best wishes
Roger

[paulmcmillan]

24-01-40 - K9811 was Sgt Peter Stackhouse Gunning #515543
later 43474 and KIA 15 Oct 1940

[Alex Smart]

Thank you David, your help is most welcome.
Many thanks
Alex

[roger_henderson]

Re; Spitfire P7887.

I see in this thread an almost complete list of 19 Squadron losses with the exception of the above.
Does anybody have the name of the pilot of 19 Squadron Spitfire II (L.R.) P7887 which stalled on take-off on the 4th September 1941 and was destroyed by fire? The pilot survived.
Many thanks,

Roger

[Matheson]

I see this is an old posting. I have recently been transcribing a logbook of GC Matheson of 19 Squadron written in April 1940. He describes an accident at Duxford When Peter Howard-Williams made a night landing in the wrong direction and pranged the C.O.' (I believe this was Sq-Ldr Geoffrey D Stephenson at that time) into an obstruction. Anyone got any idea about this incident and the aircraft involved? The date is 21st April 1940. Thanks, Howard

[Matheson]

Looking at the entry for 21st April again I see that the 'prang' was at Horsham St Faith and not Duxford. I note that:-
No. 19 Squadron Leader Geoffrey Stephenson piloted Spitfire N3200 on its first and only operation as he led his squadron on a patrol to cover the evacuation of Allied forces.After shooting down a Junkers Ju 87 Stuka dive-bomber, Stephenson was himself shot down. He crash-landed on a beach at Sangatte, near Calais, and was captured. His Spitfire N3200 was recovered from the French sands in 1986 after strong currents revealed it, more than 45 years after it sank. The wreckage was excavated during the spring of that year and, though largely intact, very few parts could be salvaged. The Spitfire was restored to flying condition and returned to the air in 2014, before it was donated to IWM in 2015. During a visit to the museum in July of that year, the Duke of Cambridge watched an air display by the Mark 1a fighter, sat in its cockpit and visited Duxford’s Battle of Britain exhibition – housed in the very same hangar that No 19 Squadron’s Spitfires were kept during the war.

The Entry in Matheson's personal notes to himself of this incident on 21st April 1940 are as follows:

"In the afternoon I fly to Duxford and send Magister with Fitter to put the Magister stuck, right. Both Magisters return to Duxford about 7 pm. Send P/O Baker on to Horsham immediately with a Magister. P/O Howard-Williams stays behind to take back the C.O.’s Spitfire. I leave Duxford at 8 o’clock with H-W in formation with me; I misjudge the amount of light and we arrive at Horsham in the dark. I land alright but H-W lands in the wrong direction and goes straight through the obstructions. He damages the C.O.’s aircraft. Clouston and the C.O. furious. Can’t really blame them. I am put under arrest by the C.O. As the C.O. did not specify, it should mean ‘close arrest’ but as he has not placed another officer to guard I take to mean ‘open arrest’. I feel pretty bad about the whole thing because I take particular pride in being careful when I lead people about the sky. It is not H-W’s fault because he is very inexperienced. Lucky he didn’t kill himself."

Hope this explains my interest in this incident,

Howard

[Martin Gleeson]

Hello Howard,

Thanks for the very interesting contribution. Is GC a relative ?

As far as I know this is a ‘new’ Spitfire accident to most of us. There is no F.1180 accident report and no mention of it in the 19 Squadron Operational Record Book. Some units, including 19 Sqn., were reluctant to report all their prangs. I would like to identify this Spitfire if possible. I suspect, but cannot prove, it might be K9825. 19 Squadron only reported operational sorties in their F.541 ‘Detail of Work Carried Out’ part of the ORB. K9825 is last shown flying operationally on 8 April 1940 and does not appear again until 26 May. The Form 78 aircraft history card for K9825 provides no help unfortunately.
Did GC record any flights – these would be non-operational – in K9825 between 8 April and 26 May 1940 ?

As part of my research into RAF losses during 1939-1940 for the Eagles over Europe project I am especially interested in what entries he had in his logbook for 30 August 1940 with 222 Squadron as there is much confusion in records over their aircraft and pilot match-ups. Any help will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[Matheson]

Hello Martin,

Geoff Matheson was killed with my wife's father on 24 Aug 1943 flying
mosquito HJ 673 an aircraft they first flew at High Ercall on 60 O.T.U. in May 43.

Since GCM was not piloting the pranged a/c his logbook will not contribute. I did email the person with GCM's pilot's log to see if there was information about his flying on that day and here's what he reports:

I've checked Geoffrey's log book for the period around 21 April 1940. Certainly no mention of the specific Spitfire in your email (N3200). Indeed, the entry for 21 April was an engine test of N3238, a Spitfire he had already flown on 15 April. However, following the last entry for 27 April, there is an entry for 21 April (although it could be an error for 27 April) for a flight in Spitfire L1031 "to and from Duxford", lasting one hour. If he had delivered another Spitfire that day it seems strange not to have mentioned it/them in an otherwise very detailed log, not least because it must have taken up some significant time.

I note in the diary that GCM and 3 pilots had flown to Ternhill on 5th April to collect four spitfires. Not quite sure how they did this so assume they left their transport at Ternhill.

I am hoping to get a look at the Pilot's log later in October.

Best wishes,

Howard

Originally Posted by Martin Gleeson

Hello Howard,

Thanks for the very interesting contribution. Is GC a relative ?

As far as I know this is a ‘new’ Spitfire accident to most of us. There is no F.1180 accident report and no mention of it in the 19 Squadron Operational Record Book. Some units, including 19 Sqn., were reluctant to report all their prangs. I would like to identify this Spitfire if possible. I suspect, but cannot prove, it might be K9825. 19 Squadron only reported operational sorties in their F.541 ‘Detail of Work Carried Out’ part of the ORB. K9825 is last shown flying operationally on 8 April 1940 and does not appear again until 26 May. The Form 78 aircraft history card for K9825 provides no help unfortunately.
Did GC record any flights – these would be non-operational – in K9825 between 8 April and 26 May 1940 ?

As part of my research into RAF losses during 1939-1940 for the Eagles over Europe project I am especially interested in what entries he had in his logbook for 30 August 1940 with 222 Squadron as there is much confusion in records over their aircraft and pilot match-ups. Any help will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[Matheson]

Originally Posted by Martin Gleeson

Hello Howard,

Thanks for the very interesting contribution. Is GC a relative ?

As far as I know this is a ‘new’ Spitfire accident to most of us. There is no F.1180 accident report and no mention of it in the 19 Squadron Operational Record Book. Some units, including 19 Sqn., were reluctant to report all their prangs. I would like to identify this Spitfire if possible. I suspect, but cannot prove, it might be K9825. 19 Squadron only reported operational sorties in their F.541 ‘Detail of Work Carried Out’ part of the ORB. K9825 is last shown flying operationally on 8 April 1940 and does not appear again until 26 May. The Form 78 aircraft history card for K9825 provides no help unfortunately.
Did GC record any flights – these would be non-operational – in K9825 between 8 April and 26 May 1940 ?

As part of my research into RAF losses during 1939-1940 for the Eagles over Europe project I am especially interested in what entries he had in his logbook for 30 August 1940 with 222 Squadron as there is much confusion in records over their aircraft and pilot match-ups. Any help will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

I now have an explanation of this event.

I have recently beeen loaned GC Matheson's pilot logbooks and a large box of related air force books from his widow's collection.

Tucked inside the book, "Fighter Squadron" by Derek Palmer was a letter, a typescript page and copy of a Peter Howard-Williams photograph that included Geoffrey Matheson.


Letter from Derek Palmer to Margo Legg,

<Snip> Peter Howard-Williams did a long audio tape (it is unclear when he recorded this - H) which I transcribed over about six or seven pages. I have enclosed the page which refers to Geoff. ys. DP

<Snip> "I remember coming back to Duxford from Horsham St Faith, it was quite late in the evening and I was flying number two to Matheson. We had left Horsham a little late and we hadn't any night flying facilities at Duxford for landing at night. And Matty, as he was known, wanted to go via his girlfriend's house and beat up the house which we duly did. When we got back it was pretty dark and when I came into land I hit some obstruction in the middle of the airfield that was marking some damp patches. I didn't damage anything but you couldn't see these obstructions because it was too dark. I remember Matty got a bollocking for that."

Matheson's diary seems to suggest that it was the other way around and they were returning to Horsham St Faith from Duxford. He doesn't mention the diversion of beating up his girlfriend's house on this occasion but this may have been noticed and reported to the C.O. explaining his annoyance!

These accounts also differ in regard to the extent of damage - if any.

This was 21st April 1940 so the ORB and or MT pages may indicate which aircraft Peter Howard-Williams (The C.O., G. Stephenson's) was flying on this occasion. Matheson was in L1031 which he seems to have taken over from Douglas Bader when he was with 19 Squadron. Clearly a talisman for him as he did the same with Bader's first 222 squadron Spitfire P9443.

[Martin Gleeson]

Hello Howard,

Thanks for that. In October I would be interested to learn if you find anything about K9825 (8 April to 26 May 1940) or his Spitfire on 30 August 1940.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.