Hornets nest or RLM 83 Darkblue

[Kari Lumppio]

Hallo!

Of the dark blue colour. In Hannu Valtonen's book Lapin lentokonehylyt there is one interesting case: Me 110 F-2 WNr. 5096 which crash landed at Kongsfjord coast, Norway 23th June, 1943. Unit was 13.(Z)/JG 5 and code possibly 1B+DX.

In the (Finnish) text Valtonen quotes the director of Flyhistorisk Museum Sola mr. Rossavik who confirms that there was dark blue paint on the wreck parts, but painted over with lighter blue.

It seems that there has been article about the wreck in Flugzeug Nr. 3/1985.

It should be possible to research the wreck at Sola museum? I understand that left wing should be remaining. The accident is a bit early for the RLM 83 tests but if indeed dark blue has been used on the wreck it might be of interest for a researcher? At least if the colour has survived since the recovery.


Cheers,
Kari



(WNr 5096 case: Aircraft wrecks of Lappland, ISBN 951-95688-3-2, p. 218-219 and footnotes at p. 227)

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Michael Ullmann

Hola Folks,
last year in September I visit the IPMS Sweden Nationals. Then they asked me to give a presentation about RLM-colours. I asked them I they want to hear something about my latest discoveries. Since then I was asked several times to give more information regarding RLM 83. Here we go:
Test order E2-45/31


(Development and verification of camouflage for the Mediterranean Sea)

• -Report August 1943:
  Alongside RLM 73 a „darkblue“ colour will be use. Flighttest in the near future.
• Report September 1943:
  Using the camouflage pattern „Land“ and „Sea“ with RLM 73 and the darkblue colour 300/III suggested for introduction.
• Report November 1943:
  Closed with report dated 10. November 1943. Colour RLM 83 „DARKBLUE“ with RLM 72 for Sea- and RLM 70 for landaircraft suggested for introduction.
• Sammelmitteilung 2, dated 15. August 1944:
  …on the dark shades RLM 72, 73, 75, 81, 82, 83 …. (no colour was stated)

These original documentation of the introduction of the new colour leads to the conclusion that we have to expect a lot of "darkblue" Luftwaffe aircraft in the Mediterranean theater.
Much more important for all those fighter-fans: This "darkgreen", formerly known as RLM 83, is nothing more, nothing less than a darkgreen variation of RLM 81.
Photos of my finished Ju 88:
http://www.scalemates.com/whatsnew.php

Best Regards from Germany
Michael Ullmann

Thank You Michael,

You're the best! Where did you get the Blue tone (hue) to paint your model?
Did you find a factory chip too? An educated guess? Why not darker?

Regards, Franck.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

I am way out of my comfort zone by commenting here, as Luftwaffe colors are not my expertise - nor interest - although I have read with interest the give and take here on TOCH! on the subject.

The one thing I can offer is a caution when documents deal with proposals, as compared to orders/accomplished facts. I note the use of the word "suggested" twice in the test orders quoted by Michael. I've read enough documents on the Me 262 to know that something suggested, or even given as an order to do at a meeting, may not have actually subsequently happened. What is needed in these cases is corroboration that the actions proposed or ordered were actually carried out.

Regards,
Richard

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by Richard T. Eger

Dear All,

I am way out of my comfort zone by commenting here, as Luftwaffe colors are not my expertise - nor interest - although I have read with interest the give and take here on TOCH! on the subject.

The one thing I can offer is a caution when documents deal with proposals, as compared to orders/accomplished facts. I note the use of the word "suggested" twice in the test orders quoted by Michael. I've read enough documents on the Me 262 to know that something suggested, or even given as an order to do at a meeting, may not have actually subsequently happened. What is needed in these cases is corroboration that the actions proposed or ordered were actually carried out.

Regards,
Richard

Amen!, Richard!

[eknutson]

Me110 F2 LN + DR in storage at Sola Aviation museum. The blue on the ving underside is faded, but the blue on nose is dark. It seems that wing undersides are painted to look like the skies in the norwegian summer up north ( RLM02 clouds on blue skye). The wite is snow camo.
We have also a B&W 138 float maybe with 83 on. http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com...Bv138float.jpg

[stevehnz]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

Steve,

Last just a question to answer to yours: Why RLM 83 chips in B&V factory archiv????

Regards, Franck.

To take this discussion back just a bit. I have received a response from snapdragonxxx to a couple of queries I made in a PM on FSM. I'll wait for his OK before I put this information on here, I've suggested that he joins the TOCH community, but he did say, in response to Francks query I have quoted, that B & V did of course build sea planes & he suspected the land plane colour chips came with the rest. I would add to that B & V did build several prototypes at various stages of the war namely the Bv141 & the Bv155 high altitude development of the Me109H which would have made this colour info pertinent to what they were doing. The previous post to this with the link to the picture of the Bv138 float provides a glimpse of a colour that is very tempting to call a deep blue. Could this be RLM83 blau?
Steve.

[Pilot]

Very interesting material in Sola, why this way not mention before? Bf 110 look like have desert sky blue color.

[eknutson]

More blue tones
http://www.flickr.com/photos/108070235@N05/11189973305/ He115 Ju 52 float

http://www.flickr.com/photos/108070235@N05/10914250083/ G2 covling

http://www.flickr.com/photos/108070235@N05/10786348453/ The B&W 138 float ( better pictures)

The tail plane on our G1 project was also in a deep blue color when it arrive. We have only one bad picture of it befor it was refurished.

If you dont want to plug trou 700 + pict use the "sets"

Ernst

[Oberst]

Looks like variations if RLM 24 Dunkelblau to me.
As far as RLM 83 is concerned, its just a variation
Of dark green. No mystery i think.

[Jan Bobek]

Just to ad to explanation of blue color where it was previously unexpected - use of RLM 24 on Ju 188 in mid 1944 quoted by Nick Beale.
http://www.ghostbombers.com/markings/misc2.html