Nice Me 262

[SES]

. . . and extracts from the KTB of OKL, date of entry 8 April 1945.
bregds
SES

[RudiS]

Hi all,

Well , I’m not a Me262 expert but…
1. The insigna does looks like a 2./KG54 skull emblem: a black skull with crossbones on a white shield with a red band in the left upper corner. See attached photo of the same emblem on a Ju88. Unfortunately I couldn’t find a better photo.

2. The karoband doesn’t look like it’s blue/white like it should with a KG54 a/c but it doesn’t look like it’s black/red either. The 2nd attached photo shows a black spinner with a red band half way on the spinner body. The 3rd photo shows a black spinner with a red spinner tip. If I compare these with the karoband on the photo of the Me262, I would say the colors on the latter would be black, red or blue for the dark squares and yellow for the lighter onces.
In this thread here David E. Brown, who knows much more about the Me262 then I, explained in post #9 that on some occasions the white squares of the KG54 karoband were slightly oversprayed with a darker paint for camouflage purposes.

So in my opinion this is a KG54 a/c.

Regards,
Rudi.

[SES]

Hi,
I/KG(J)54 is listed in the LW Gliederung as of 13. April 1945, as opposed to ALL the other KG(J), which are not.
bregds
SES

[sidney]

I thought that KG(J) 54 retained the bomber codes, as it could be seen in Henry L. de Zeng and Douglas Stankey book Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe 1933-1945, Volume 2, page 346 (Me 262 A-1 coded B3+EK of 2./KG(J) 54) and page 347 (Me 262 A-1 coded B3+GR of 7./KG(J) 54). Perhaps there were exceptions to the above rule, whereby some of the Me 262 A-1 aircraft belonging to KG(J) 54 had fighter style codes (i.e., just numerals)? If so, can somebody quote the source, or post the photo to prove the case?

[Micke D]

Please observe that there is some kind of dark discoloration on the photo over the checkered band, so the band could as well be white and blue and not red and black.

[Pawel Burchard]

Hi SES, there is quite a lot of details on operations of Me 262s of III./K.G.(J) 6 in Prague area up to 8-May-1945 in Jan Horn book.

p.

[PhilippeDM]

@SES

This is where administration in the late Luftwaffe period seems not to know from each other decisions... So there was an order to disband the KG(J) and on the other hand strenght report still mention it. Make us happy to research this part of history...

@Rudi,
I have to agree with you concerning the tone down of Karoband planes of KG(J)54 where the white was oversprayed. This could explain the (blurred) balkenkreuz colour which appear also to be overspread. What concerns me is the black '11' with white surroundings: this manner of doing is very close to the KG(J)6 plane 'black 1' already mentionned, which make me still thinking of KG(J)6... I do agree black ciphers are mentionned in KG(J)54 lists, but I have not seen a picture of it yet.

I really think this picture should be seen without distortion or blurring to confirm this...

BTW does anyone has any clue of the possible location of the piucture? Thise trees in the background suggest springtime (1945?) and seem familiar to me. Will have a look in my docs as soon as possible...

[SES]

Hi Philippe could you possibly scan and post a strength report with KG(J)6 equipped with Me262. Yes I do know of other instances where the KTB are in error.

Thanks a lot Pawel.

And just to muddle the issue I picked up the attached over at LEMB a while back.

bregds
SES

[digiartist]

If you look at the karoband, the darker sections although under a dark smudge are still not as dark as the unblemished swastika, this suggests that perhaps the tail band is indeed blue and white. Considering the number 11 is also lighter, maybe we're looking at 'blue 11' of Kg-54?
I don't have the Japo study on Me-262 Kg units with me so I don't know if blue was used as a staffel colour.
Although the fuselage sides are angled and would receive more light than the tail surface I still think there is quite a compelling argument that this is blue '11' of Kg-54.

cheers

Gareth

[PhilippeDM]

@SES:
This is "yellow 3" of KG(J)54. The tailband was overpainted with RLM83.

I'll try to scan that excerpt of the KG(J)6 report later today as this is very small in the KG(J) Book...

Guys, Thanks for your input: I love this passionate debate. This confirm the worth of such an open forum as this one!