Official difference between the G-10 and K-4 windscreen??

[harrison987]

Originally Posted by von Lutz

Attachment 1290
I think the difference is not G or K but whehter the aircaft has an MG 151/20 or MK-108. The former has the ammo bin in the left wing while the latter had it directly above the cannon. This reguired access to the top of the MK 108 ammo bin just forward of the windscreen. As seen in the attached foto of the PoF Bf 109G-10, the steel welded cover in front of the windscreen was required to be able to access the top of the ammo bin. Also the MK 108 elect. panel lying horizontal above the ammo bin opening could be rotated 90 degrees toward the windscreen. Both G-10s restored by Evergreen have this same style cover.

Sorry you were unable to get a response from PoF, but the Valle museum crew consists of only a few people how have every little time to answer inquiries.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

A HA!!!!

So YOU are the culprit!

I would actually like to know if the manuals that John and Olivier have are original or copies. Too much of the German stuff (including uniforms) is TOO well copied that it is almost impossible to know if they are original unless they are in your hands.

There was actually a 262 manual sold on eBay about 3 months ago which was 100% fake, but sold for over $300 off eBay...the seller insisted it was original becasue it had an ink stamp in it. I personally viewed that manual about 6 months previous and after seeing it in person it proved 100% fake...wrong paper, no weathering due to 60 years of storage, wrong staples and construction...even a 50% German/50% Czech KG13A control grip went for almost $2500 last week alone.

I think you're correct in your statement about the screen.

I am definitly leaning in that direction, as the EDSK was also moved to the flat section just behind the Ammo Bin.

Unfortunatly, th 109G parts manual from 1944 shows the set-up for the Mk108 and MG151 with no but no difference to the windscreen frontage.

[George Hopp]

In the 70's there were some fake ones produced, which were copied from the G and K manuals, but never have I found an original.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'fake.' Do you mean copies of the original handbooks, or do you mean bogus handbooks that do not contain accurate information about the original subject.

I have several copies and have found them to be simple copies of the originals. This is great since I have not found originals for many handbooks. And, yes, I have a copy of a G-10 manual, but it is a copy and not original.

By the way, in your enthusiasm you neglected to mention the handbooks (3) for the 109 G-8 (although I have yet to see the radio one), and the composite one for the G-AS. I didn't know there was a handbook for the 109 G-12, and have only the MW-50 booklet for the 109 G-14. So, if anyone would be willing to sell me a copy of any handbooks on those 2 aircraft I would be most thankful. As well as those elusive 109 K-4 manuals.

All the best of luck in your quest,
George

PS. And, yes, I also have a couple of copies of the 109 G-10 manuals that von Lutz produced. Excellent workmanship!

[harrison987]

Hi George!

No I was being generalized when mentioning the manual types. G-1, G-2, G-3, G-3, G-4, G-4 R/3, G-5 G-6, G-6 R2, G-AS etc.. The list is around 50 different types and sub-types.

Oh, when I say "Fake" I mean both repros being sold as originals, and manuals made that never existed. Originals fetch in the $200-$1000+ range, fakes (copies) in the $10-$20 range.


here are some nice originals...not for sale though

[George Hopp]

Very nice, Harrison.
George

[von Lutz]

Nice collection Harrison, some of us can only afford copies or reprints. I do have a few originals and a few that are questionable.
Concerning how to tell if G-10 handbuchs are Real or my reprints. Mine are easy to tell, the cockpit foto is of the Chino G-10, the right rudder pedal has the bottom broken off and the Compass is obviously a foto stuck in place. I sold these as reprints for $5 each.

[von Lutz]

I just checked my "copy" of the G-6/U4 Waffenanlage and it shows the same shortened welded steel cover but some of the elect. equip. is in the cockpit and the two small angle pivot strips are not there ( See the earlier G10 foto)

[schwarze-man]

Richard! Hope you are well-last saw you at Chino in '86! Thankyou for posting that page of Flugzeug-Handbuch references for the G-10! It is great that you could pass this info on! BTW, almost all the work on Black-Six relied on photo-copies of original manuals, we couldn't afford any real originals! Thanks!! Chris Starr

[O.Menu]

I can tell that there is a cockpit photo which is certainly not the one from Chino inside the G-10 manual from Olivier since he was kind enough to send me a scann from this cockpit some times ago...

[von Lutz]

Could you send me a copy of the cockpit scan, would like to see the "real" one

[harrison987]

Myself as well...be interested in seeing if it is an original or not....possibly a page from a G-6/U4 manual, or G-14.

Mike