Luftwaffe Aircraft Loss Reports?

[RodM]

Originally Posted by mhuxt

Thanks Rod.

You wouldn't happen to have a higher-rez version would you? I'm trying to sharpen up the print as posted, but some of the info is still only tantalisingly close to legibility.

Cheers,

Mark

Hi Mark,

I do have a much higher res photo, but one of the problems is posting it here is the file size restrictions for uploading.

The original photo print is in AIR 40/2316 at TNA. A duplicate British Air Ministry photo print, along with a 10-page English translation of a German Interrogation report specifically derived from the 2 TAF Mosquito losses during Clarion are in AIR 40/2316 at TNA.

NARA in the US should have photo prints of the following frames from the Luftgaukommando XI. microfilm in RG 242 that relate to the Mosquito losses during Clarion (caveat, Mike has indicated that NARA are now stating that they don't have this series of photo prints). Note - these are the Luftgaukommando copies of the reports/signals, not the Dulag Luft copies, which would have been assigned KE numbers:

Frames 132291 and 132291a
Frame 132307
Frame 132314
Frames 132318 and 132319
Frame 132326
Frames 132330 to 132339 inclusive
Frames 132347 to 132352 inclusive
Frames 132355 to 132368 inclusive

If you sent me a PM with your e-mail, then I can e-mail the high res version of the map.

Cheers

Rod

[Revi16]

Originally Posted by RodM

Hi Mark,

I do have a much higher res photo, but one of the problems is posting it here is the file size restrictions for uploading.

The original photo print is in AIR 40/2316 at TNA. A duplicate British Air Ministry photo print, along with a 10-page English translation of a German Interrogation report specifically derived from the 2 TAF Mosquito losses during Clarion are in AIR 40/2316 at TNA.

NARA in the US should have photo prints of the following frames from the Luftgaukommando XI. microfilm in RG 242 that relate to the Mosquito losses during Clarion (caveat, Mike has indicated that NARA are now stating that they don't have this series of photo prints). Note - these are the Luftgaukommando copies of the reports/signals, not the Dulag Luft copies, which would have been assigned KE numbers:

Frames 132291 and 132291a
Frame 132307
Frame 132314
Frames 132318 and 132319
Frame 132326
Frames 132330 to 132339 inclusive
Frames 132347 to 132352 inclusive
Frames 132355 to 132368 inclusive

If you sent me a PM with your e-mail, then I can e-mail the high res version of the map.

Cheers

Rod

Hi,

If the photo prints exist, no one there seems to know how to locate them.
I will be at the Archives this week and wil try again using your information.

I've reviewed the RG242 finding aid numerous times (hundreds of subjects), all of the reports listed have a letter prefix, i.e. AV, KE, KU, ME, J, etc. and are located & ordered that way.
Have not found any reports marked only Luftgaukommando XI with a 6 digit designator.

I'm sorry if I'm still not clear on this, are all of the photo prints you received from NARA dated Jan. 1945 (from fiche 5985)?

I am trying to locate earlier reports (1939-1944).

Regards,
Mike

[RodM]

Hi Mike,

the six-digit reports that I ordered were referenced in the indexes on the fiches for November 1944 (# 5981), December 1944 (# 5982), and (mostly) January through to March 1945 (# 5983).

Having looked at fiche # 5985, this appears to have nothing to do with RAF BC in January 1945, instead it contains a list of personnel (name, rank, serial number) of the 20th Bomber Command USAAF.

The last verifiable time that I know the photo prints were viewed at NARA was early 2006, this from the EXIF data of the digital photos of photo prints that I received. My original photocopy order was probably made in 2005.

The frames (totalling 245) that I have copies of run from 131223 to 132742, all relating to losses in 1945 (I did get copies of some earlier frames for late 1944 for a colleague, but no longer have these myself).

If NARA had made photo prints of all the frames mentioned in the RG 92 indexes, then they would have totalled some 30,000+ prints (I see that the reports start in 1939 at around frame 101,400 and end in 1945 in the 132,700s. It was never a case of them making photo prints just for my order, and, besides, half the copies of frames that I obtained were personally photographed by a researcher.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the correspondence pertaining to my dealings with NARA or the orders.

The photo prints are most likely not indexed under Luftgaukommando XI.; it is just that I know this is where they originate from and were probably a part of a cache of Luftgaukommando XI. documents captured by the British in the closing stages of the war (this cache including the Luftgaukommando XI. KTB and an Abschuesseliste). I make this presumption because (a) a large LGK. XI. archive was captured, and (b) they are the Luftgau copies of the reports, and thus do not have a KE/J etc identifier, which was only added at Dulag Luft/Auswertungsstelle West, and (c) if the documents were a part of the Dulag Luft/Auswertungsstelle West collection, one would think that similar documents from other Luftgaukommandos would have survived. The British either captured the microfilm or the original photo prints.


I don't know if the following helps but I believe I made my initial enquiries of NARA based upon Box 77 in RG 242, Stack Area 190, Row 14, Compartment 5, Shelf 3. Box 77 contained a file (RG 242/1033) that had an alphabetical index of crash reports by crash location (this being seperate from the index by report type, i.e. KU/J etc).

Cheers

Rod

PS - Mike, an update - I do retain the original invoice for the six-digit frames (all in the 131000s) that I ordered, and they were all from Box 38, RG 242, Stack Area 190, Row 14, Compartment 4, Shelf 5.

Mark, thanks for the PM, requested high-res pic has been e-mailed

[mhuxt]

Thanks Rod, check PMs.

[Dénes Bernád]

Gentlemen,

Should we understand that there is no chance of obtaining copies of any RUS files (from either USA or UK archives), short of contacting Moscow (the latter is a joke, of course)?

[Larry deZeng]

The RUS reports are not in the U.S. archives; there is only a single box with an index to them. Since these were divided up among the Allies after the war, the presumption is that the RUS reports were turned over to the generous, always happy to share, USSR, and today are readily available in the Russia MOD archives in Podolsk, which is open to the public 24/7/365 and has a friendly staff of thousands eager to serve the international research community's every whim.

[Dénes Bernád]

You forgot the winking emoticon from the end of the sentence, Larry.

[Nikita Egorov]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

The RUS reports are not in the U.S. archives; there is only a single box with an index to them. Since these were divided up among the Allies after the war, the presumption is that the RUS reports were turned over to the generous, always happy to share, USSR, and today are readily available in the Russia MOD archives in Podolsk, which is open to the public 24/7/365 and has a friendly staff of thousands eager to serve the international research community's every whim.

Omitting irony, I should say that no such material are held in Podolsk, unfortunately.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, all

So where did it end up then? I would also suspect, that if it wasnt divided immediately after the war, that the US kept on to what they could??

Regards,
Andreas B

[Herr Egon]

Can I have a copy of the digital files of german aircraft losses