The Eagles Over Europe Project

[Marius]

Hello,
many thanks to SES for the last pdf file. As I see the big German overclaiming is clear done.
It makes me believe 10.(N)/JG 26 shot exactly at the same aircraft as II./JG 77. This would explain the lack of confirmation for most victories of Steinhoff`s Staffel.
Can somebody help with personal accounts (or postwar memories) of Johannes Steinhoff, Willi Szuggar, Werner Gerhardt, Martin Portz or August Wilke?

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Marius,

I have accounts from several German pilots involved, but none of these.

Regards,

[Marius]

Hello, no problem Larry.
I mean Steinhoff wrote a lot of things after the war. Was there nothing about the 18.12.1939 ???

Regards,

[Marius]

Hello, I analized the Luftgau XI copies a little bit and it seems the aerial victories of 10.(N)/JG 26 have another hours than given in T.Woods or JFV Vol.II.
The question is where the partially incorrect times (14.30,14.30,14.35,14.35,14.35) are coming from ??? Maybe from Heinrich Weiss` manuscript - but isn`t it just an authors speculation ???

According to Luftgau XI it could be the following hours for Steinhoff`s Staffel: 14.30,14.35,14.35,14.40,14.40.
There remains the question what exactly in T.Woods & Prien/Bock lists is documented and what is just a speculation.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Marius,

I fail to see how five minute differences in some of these times makes a material difference in the analysis of the German over-claims on 18.12.39. There could easily be some recording or transcribing errors from one source to another, but it doesn't effect the overall issue of German over-claims during the air battle. Possible transcription errors from one source to another with differences of five minutes don't bring us any closer to understanding what happened from the German point of view. The claims were still made within a very short time-span, whichever source you want to use for the information. This hardly indicates just author's "speculation."

Regards,

[Marius]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Possible transcription errors from one source to another with differences of five minutes don't bring us any closer to understanding what happened from the German point of view. "

I am very surprised again about such "easy made" statements. How can you know that? I cannot say the differences are going into 5 minutes for sure. Maybe it is much more. Luftgau XI lists mention another hours which could come from 10.(N)/JG 26 also (for example 14.50 - possible difference of 20 minutes!). It is a fact the published sources like JFV do not differe between documented and author`s speculation data. The reader cannot work with it "seriously".
[I mean this problem came out some months ago already as I asked for the victories of JGr.152 for September 1939.]

Maybe 30 victories were claimed against the "northern formation" of Wellingtons and 6 against the "southern formation". There exists a possibility the hardly documented data could help to find out who attacked who and which unit made the overclaiming and which unit did not.

Just a few puzzle parts, but eventually very important for the German point of view.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Can anyone direct me to any known photos of the Hs123 flown by Hptm-Maj Otto Weiss, L2+AC, as Gr Kdr of II.(S)/LG2 during 1939-40. He replaced Maj Georg Spielvogel who was killed on 09.09.40, and was awarded the RK on 18 May 1940.

Thanx for any assistance.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Earlier today on this board a photo was posted showing a Bf109E with a 6./StG77 bull insignia on the fuselage. I posted that I was wondering if someone was playing a Photoshop joke with the photo.

Now one of our stalwart EoE members sent me a photo that they had just acquired (presumably on eBay) from someone selling a modern print of a wartime photo. It had an entirely authentic insignia on the fuselage, but it didn't match the aircraft code. I did a search and found that I had many photos of this same a/c in the EoE Photo DB, including two that well matched the same area visible in the photo, both taken after a crash-landing that wrote the a/c off, and both without question the same aircraft. Every bullet hole, flak tear and broken window matched. However, the insignia in question was missing from both of the original photos. Someone had perpetrated a fraud by Photoshopping an insignia onto this photo then selling it.

I don't want to say anything about the seller yet, as I'm still gathering information, but someone is using Photoshop software to alter photos and is selling them as reproductions of authentic WW II photos. Buyer beware.

I don't know for sure that the two incidents are related or involve the same seller, but I wanted to alert everyone right away before someone else falls victim of that fraud. In both cases, one suspected and one proven, the photoshop work was done with a very high degree of technical skill. It was very professional and didn't leave a lot of the obvious tell-tale artifacts in the image that sometimes gives away a Photoshop job.

The bad news is that not only insignias, but every other kind of marking can be digitally recreated if someone is motivated to do so. Apparently that someone is now at work.

[Chris Goss]

One thing I have also seen is the same 'original' photo being offered again & again. Some times they are described as copies but many times they are not. Caveat emptor &.don't be afraid to challenge the seller

[Harrie]

Larry and Chris

Reaction Fraud Alert.

On the auctionsite marktplaats.nl was and is this picture for sell ,for the highest bidder, first of all : Iam NOT the seller and have nothing to do with it ,my knowledge about BF-109 is average and that,s why i,ve posted the photo .I was wondering who could be this pilot comparing those victories .The photo is still on the auction site . I,ve nothing to do with it and it,s a shame that people like to make money out of it that way .
I shall send the seller a e-mail .If you have a account do the same
Name and shame .
The seller also says on the back there is a Original stamp of Afga on it .
So guys don,t kill me ,am just the Messenger