Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

[Courtois Laurent]

October 26, 1944

Sector Gumbinnen – Stallupönen.
Hptm Wilhelm Batz Stab III/JG52 LaGG 25336 Kattenau . 11:09
Hptm Wilhelm Batz Stab III/JG52 LaGG 25338 Kattenau . 11:10 a.m.
Ltn Karl Gratz Stab/JG52 Il2 25543 Darkehmen 11h00
Uffz. Robert Anlauf 3/JG52 Il2 25445 Darkehmen 11h16
Uffz. Robert Anlauf 3/JG52 LaGG-5 25498 soviet sector 11:17
Oblt. Franz Faber Stab I/JG52 Il2 25498 soviet sector 11h25

Goldap sector.
Obfhr Friedrich Blessin 9/JG52 LaGG 2554- /Goldap 9h05
Ltn Karl Gratz Stab/JG52 Il2 25577 10 km W Goldap 11:00
Hptm Adolf Borchers Stab I/JG52 Il2 25373 10 km W Goldap 11h15
Ofw Helmut Schönfelder Stabsstaffel/ JG51 Pe-2 2581 btw Goldap-Suwalki 14:37
Oblt Manfred Eberwein 1/JG52 Yak-3 25583 Goldap 15:22

The Luftwaffe claims 4 Lagg including 1 laGG-5, 5 Il2, 1 Pe2 and 1 Yak3, for its part the 1st VA deplores the loss of 5 Aircraft 2 Il-2 destroyed by the Flak, 1 Yak-3 and 2 IL2 missing .

303 IAD = 1 Yak-3 reported missing from the 1st OIAP = de Geoffre, disappearance, not found in the reports of the 303 IAD.
18 Gv IAP, no encounter with the enemy.
139 Gv IAP, no encounter with the enemy.
523 IAP (8 La5 and 7 La7), no encounter with the enemy.
1 OIAP "Normandy" 2 dogfights
240 IAD no losses: 2 aerial combat between 4 Yak-9 and 4 Me 109 and 4 FW 190.
330IAD: no losses
609 IAP:
161 IAP: No Enemy Encounter.
129 IAD: Mission: escort of 182 and 277 ShAD.
3 dogfights during which 1 Fw-190 and 1 Me 109 were shot down. No Losses as well as in escorted Il2s.
790I AP: -
805 IAP: 1 air combat between 4 la5 and 2 Me 109 and 2 FW 190 without result or losses.
863 IAP: -
130 IAD no losses
168 IAP: 29 Yak-9Ls escort the IL2s of 952 ShAP. 4 dogfights including 1 in the vicinity of Goldap.
409 IAP: 18 Yak-9s escort the IL2s of 953 ShAP, an aerial combat at 3:40 p.m. (SU) 10 km SE of Goldalp, 1 Me 109 shot down which crashes at Gurnen.
909 IAP: (Yak-9), 1 aerial combat at 1800 altitude with 2 Me 109 in the sector of Flesten (5 km SW of Goldap).


We will try to identify the IL-2 units attacked between 11h00 and 11h30 (G) or 13h-13h30 (SU)

1 Gv Shad: no air activity at 1 p.m. – 1:30 p.m. (SU). And from 5:40 p.m. to 5:55 p.m. in the Gumbinnen area.

311 ShaD: in the period from 15:40 to 15:45 in the area of ​​JOANNISBERG (5 km south of Goldap -25589), today Janowo-Poland), a group of 6 IL-2 952 AP attacked by a pair of FV -190. Enemy aircraft carried out a total of 4 attacks, as a result of which the air gunner of the leader of the group, Senior Lieutenant SADAIDAK - Sergeant OSTASHKOV was injured, he died 2 hours after returning to his airfield.

277 ShAD: performs missions from 10:38 to 17:00 under the protection of La-5s of 790 IAP, in the sectors of Perkallen (25385), Marienhof, Alt Grünwalde (25382), нештокэмен, Kiauten (25553)
The report notes attacks by FW-190.
999 ShAP: No missions between 1:00 p.m. and 1:30 p.m. (SU).

182 ShAD: The Course of Hostilities - Attack aircraft worked in difficult weather conditions at low altitude, due to low cloud. Weather - Cloudiness 6-8 points, height 400-600 mt. visibility 2-4 km.
At 09:43-10:21, a pair of crews carried out additional reconnaissance in the target area. At 12:15, the first six of 539 ShAP appeared over the target, the next groups appeared over the target (Pillkallen) within an interval of 15 km.
At 5:00 p.m., three groups of six hit the enemy infantry concentration in the Pillkallen area, Karczarningken (Blumensfeld), in one day, 7 groups flew, made 50 self-dallies, including 2 crew for weather reconnaissance , total flight time: 46 hours. 32 mins.
Losses - 3 crew members did not return from a combat mission, of which - ml. lieutenant Gavrilov, senior lieutenant Mezin, ml. Lieutenant Gudimchik was hit by flak fire, two more crew did not return from the combat mission, their whereabouts were not established.

Conclusion: None of the German claims have been confirmed by German archives. The only combats potentially identified are those of Hptm Wilhelm Batz between LaGGs of the 129th IAD escorting Il-2s of LA 182 Shad.

Overclaiming rate: 100%, certainly linked to the weather conditions altering the discernment of German pilots...

[HGabor]

Hi Folks,
On October 26, 1944 the 1 VA, 1 GvShAD, 76 GvShAP lost Il-2m3, c/n: 9743 (Shapovalov+) to flak.
16 VA, 234 IAD, 157 IAP lost Yak-3, c/n: 1811 (Batov+)

Gabor

[Courtois Laurent]

Originally Posted by HGabor

Hi Folks,
On October 26, 1944 the 1 VA, 1 GvShAD, 76 GvShAP lost Il-2m3, c/n: 9743 (Shapovalov+) to flak.
16 VA, 234 IAD, 157 IAP lost Yak-3, c/n: 1811 (Batov+)

Gabor

Hello Gabor, thanks to help to the work.

Yes, the 1 GvShAD lost a Il-2, but they don't fly at 11h to 11h30 (german times), then concerning the luftwaffe's victories it's doesn't match. From my memory this days the 4th VA loosed only one Yak-9

Concerning rhe 16 VA, she operated in the Warsaw aera.

The question could be asked for the 4 VA, including few divisions (of memory, the 233 ShaD and the 309 IAD (LA5/Yak3/YAk9)) operated in the NW of Augustow. that is to say at the hinge between the 1st VA and the 4th VA

[HGabor]

Yes, 16 VA, 157 IAP Yak-3, c/n: 1811 was lost at Warsaw-NE, ~27-30km indeed.

Interestingly Yak-3, c/n: 1711 (the previous plane on the assembly line in batch No.11 in the Saratov factory) was flown by Capt. Koldunov (Post-war Chief of the Soviet Air Defense) at this time in the 17 VA in Yugoslavia, participating the infamous Nis incident with American P-38s of the 82 FG.

Gabor

[Courtois Laurent]

Originally Posted by HGabor

at this time in the 17 VA in Yugoslavia, participating the infamous Nis incident with American P-38s of the 82 FG.

Gabor

wouldn't it be rather on November 7 that the 659th IAP of the 288 IAD shot down 4 P-38s in Serbia?

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/proarm/n...083e7d9f7a96cd

[HGabor]

Yes, that's the case, but only 3 American attackers went down to the Yaks, the 4th went down to flak. Capt. Koldunov -risking his life- pulled up to the P-38 leader in his Yak-3, c/n: 1711 signaling to finish their rampage. See his plane in the 17 VA's (288 IAD) Order of Battle on January 1, 1945 (TsAMO RF) at:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/194997...h/51875850217/

Gabor

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by HGabor

Yes, that's the case, but only 3 American attackers went down to the Yaks, the 4th went down to flak.

IIRC it was the opposite and only one, if any, P-38 was lost to Yaks, the rest to AA.

[Frank Olynyk]

I have only three MACRs for losses this date for the 82nd FG.

MACR 9695, at 1030 hours, Capt Charles King, flak, evaded
MACR 9694, at 1100 hours, 2nd Lt Philip Brewer, DED, Yak-9
MACR 9696, at 1100 hours, 2nd Lt Eldon Eugene Coulson, DED, Yak-9

Enjoy!

Frank.

[HGabor]

Yes Frank, you are right, 3 not 4. My son even made a video about this incident:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTT9FGPTwEc

[Courtois Laurent]

October 27, 1944

The Luftwaffe claims 6 victories today.

Ltn Leonhard Färber 3/JG52 La5 25561 at 200m - Hardtek (7 km NE Goldalp) 13.35
Ltn Leonhard Färber 3/JG52 La5 25561 at 2500m - Hardtek (7 km NE Goldalp) 13.39

Ltn H-J Birkner III/JG52 LaGG 25529 at 1200m (Dakehnen – 10 km N Goldap) 14.15

Ltn H-J Birkner III/JG52 LaGG 25533 at 3000m (Ballupönen-25 KM SE gumbinnen) 14.23

Oblt Rudolf Trenkel 2/JG52 Yak3 25583 at 800m. (Goldap) 15.10
Ltn August Rieckhoff 2/JG52 Yak3 25586 at 1500m. (Goldap) 15.11


Losses of the 1st VA: 1 Il2 (311 ShAD) destroyed by the Flak (from a tank), 1 Yak-3 (1st OIAP "Normandy") and 1 Yak-9 (909 IAP, 130 IAD) shot down by the air force enemy, and 1 Yak-9 (909 IAP, 130 IAD) and 2 La5 missing (of the 330 IAD).

At first reading, there are therefore 6 Luftwaffe claims for 4 Soviet losses. Let a ratio of an overclaiming rate of 33%

Now let's look in detail at the Soviet losses.

The 303rd IAD to a Yak-3 of the 1st OIAP "Normandy" (Cptn Cuffaut) shot down by enemy aircraft and 1 La7 reported missing (Ltn Rakov, 523 IAP) during 5 dogfights. 2 wins 1 me-109 and 1 FW 190.
1st OIAP "Normandy": 3 aerial combat, Captain Cuffaut, following an aerial combat judged by some to be imaginary, parachutes during a mission carried out between 5:10 p.m. and 5:50 p.m. 8 km from Goldap. This incident does not correspond to any German claim, the overclaiming rate therefore increases to 50%

523rd IAP: On a mission from 8:25 to 9:00 a.m. Ltn Rakov on an La-7 or La-5, not finding foggy terrain to parachute into. This loss cannot therefore be attributed to the Luftwaffe, so the overclaiming rate now reaches 66%.

The 129th IAD protects the operations of the 182nd and 277th ShAD, not encountering enemy aircraft. No Losses

240th IAD: no encounter with enemy fighters. No loss.

The 130th IAD have 1 Yak-9 lost in aerial combat and 1 other missing, during two aerial combats. She claims 2 victories 1 me-109 and 1 FW 190.
909 IAP:
From 4:35 p.m. to 5:23 p.m., Yak-9s of the 909th IAP carried out an Il2 protection mission of the 956 ShAP in the Gross Dunaïken sector (20 km south of Goldad) Graboven (16 km south of Goldap). At 5:20 p.m. at 7 km SW of Goldap (Torfbrukh) a fight took place with Me 109s and two planes (Ltn Mïots and Safonenko) were reported missing, according to the crews of the Il-2s, one of the pilots parachuted in.

Oblt Rudolf Trenkel 2/JG52 Yak3 25583 at 800m. (Goldap) 15.10
Ltn August Rieckhoff 2/JG52 Yak3 25586 at 1500m. (Goldap) 15.11

Note 1: It's not that easy to "avoid yakolevs with radiators"

Note 2: In the same sector at a close time, since he took off at 5:10 p.m. to perform the Goldap, Gumbinnen, Stallupönen circuit, Captain Cuffaut was "dejected". Nevertheless, in a typewritten account (countersigned) from the time, of which I have the original, Captain Cuffaut reports having heard the Soviets before the fight signal the presence of enemy aircraft. Which seems to indicate that the claim relates to a Yak-9 of the 909th IAP.

330th IAD: carries out 6 flights to protect the reconnaissance of the 117 OPKAP which carries out 2 missions of artillery fire corrections.
-609 IAP: The regiment in the period 13.00-16.40 flew to escort 4 Il-2 to photograph the front edge of the enemy defense in the Goldap-Gubenen area. A total of 13 sorties were flown, with 9 hours 50 minutes of flight.
Drop the tasks.
In the targeted area, ZA and MZA came under fire.
Enemy air combat losses shot down 2 FV-190 aircraft.
There are no losses and losses of IL-2.
7 La-5 in the period from 15:50 (SU) to 16:40 (SU), flew to escort 2 Il-2 to often photograph the edge of the enemy defense in the Griboven (?)-Stulgen (Hasenrod) area. The mission ended in the area of ​​Fresten (Flesten 7 SE from goldap?) and was met by 6 FV-190, with which they were on the h-3000 mt. An aerial battle began, which lasted 10 minutes. in the region of Tuttenen (?) . As a result of air combat at a distance of 80-120 meters from the second burst, S-Lieutenant Maidanik shot down 1 FV-190, which fell in the Wilhelmsberg area, the second FV-190 was shot down by a foreman who Kushnerov, fell in the Tuttelen region.

(The report being handwritten, some toponyms could not be identified)

In all likelihood the pilots of 609 IAP clashed with those of III/JG52.

Ltn H-J Birkner III/JG52 LaGG 25529 at 1200m (Dakehnen – 10 km N Goldap) 14.15 (GER).

Ltn H-J Birkner III/JG52 LaGG 25533 at 3000m (Ballupönen-25 KM SE gumbinnen) 14.23 (GER).

161 IAP: carries out missions of protection of the bombers of the 6th Gv BAD in the Stallupönen-Pillkallen sector. No encounter with the enemy. Two planes landed at nearby airfields (possibly the La-5s reported as not mission income.

927 IAP: No information available.

The 311th ShaD at 1 Il2 destroyed by the Flak.

1 Gv ShAD - 240 IAD: The morning weather in the area was bad: overcast, H-50-100m. , visibility 1-2 km. A pair took off at 1:52 p.m. for weather reconnaissance. The cloud cover had increased slightly, but it was still impossible to work in groups.
Performs attack missions in the Pillkallen sector from 4:45 p.m. to 5:50 p.m. No Loss.

311 ShAD - 130 IAD, Performs from 15:50 to 17:20 attack missions in the sector south of Goldap. 1 Il-2 shot down by a tank.

277 ShAD – 129 IAD, Performs from 8:00 a.m. to 5:12 p.m. attack missions in the Gumbinnen sector, Alt Katenau, Pillkallen. no loss

182 ShAD: two weather reconnaissance flights, no losses.

Conclusion: For this day the overclaiming rate seems to be at 66%. To be 100% certain, it would be necessary to be able to identify the adversaries of Ltn Färber of JG52. Nevertheless, there is a very low probability that his two victories are corroborated by Soviet archives.

Intermediate balance sheet from October 22 to 27, 1944: for 46 victories claimed by the Luftwaffe, 4 were confirmed by Soviet losses. This leads to an overclaim of 91%, however, it is possible that this figure is reduced by possible interactions between the units of the Luftwaffe and the 4th Soviet VA.

It is also highly probable that if Laurent RIZZOTTI continues to have the sympathy of us to share his work on German losses, we will arrive at such a very high rate of overclaiming among Soviet pilots and especially among French pilots of the Normandie-Niemen.