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[SES]

Hi Larry,
You have addressed my comment previously to my full satisfaction . I have tested my interpretation of zbV on our learned German colleges and they agree with me.
The AM list is not faultless, one of my favourites is Luftnachrichten Dienst translated to Air Intelligence Service, which is an OK translation, but it does not describe the operational function, which was Control, Reporting and Signals Service.
But my small comment does (hopefully) not detract anything from your great effort and piece of work.
kind regards
SES

[Larry deZeng]

Thanks, SES.

"Provisional" and "Composite" were widely used WW II Allied terms that were often affixed to unit designations. There are many examples of this. Yet, in English-to-German Allied military dictionaries from the WW II era, neither word appears. I am looking at my copy of TM 30-506: German Military Dictionary (War Department, May 1944) right now. Evidently these two terms puzzled the compilers of the dictionary and they provided no translation into German. That's especially curious since the term "zur besonderer Verwendung" was widely used by the Heer and the Luftwaffe, particularly the latter. As you know, many Luftnachrichten units, mainly the small specialized ones, used the "z.b.V." designation for the duration of the war. So I must conclude that duration of existence was not always the determinant in affixing "z.b.V." to a unit's designation. It meant something more than just "Provisional".

Larry

[SES]

Hi Larry,
I agree that zbB cannot be directly translated into provisional, and we may need a deeper understanding of the Wehrmacht organization in order fully to comprehend the notion. But I'm glad to learn that our predecessors also struggled with the term.
bregds
SES

[CJE]

So?
How can we understand the "KG zbV" designation?
"Provisional for the duration of the war" :-))

[AndreasB]

Brilliant!

All the best

Andreas

[Larry deZeng]

Originally Posted by CJE

So?
How can we understand the "KG zbV" designation?
"Provisional for the duration of the war" :-))

The original question in this thread was about transport units. When the entire transport branch of the Luftwaffe, namely XIV. Fliegerkorps, was reorganized effective 1 May 1943, all of the "z.b.V." designations were dropped. The new designations were Transportfliegergeschwader, Transportfliegergruppe and Transportfliegerstaffel.

So, I guess you might say that the "z.b.V." term was retained for as long as the Organisationsabteilung/Genst.d.Lw. wanted to retain it. There do not appear to have been any firm and fast guidelines used in making these decisions, at least none that I know about.

Organisationsabteilung der Gen.St. der Lw. (2. Abteilung)
(Organizations Branch of the General Staff of the Air Force (2d Branch))

Chef
Obstlt. Hermann Plocher (1 Feb 39 - 4 Jan 40)
Gen.Maj. Dipl.Ing. Wolfgang Erdmann (12 Jan 40 - 31 Mar 43)
Oberst i.G. Hermann Aldinger (1 Apr 43 - 3 Nov 44)
Oberst i.G. Wolfgang Ruhsert (3 Nov 44 - c. 28 Apr 45)

History
Generally, the branch had some 9 subdivisions during the war years. In November 1944 it had 30 officers and 57 others - responsible for the mobilization, formation and organization of all Luftwaffe staffs, commands and units.

This is the Branch that decided what designations and names units were to have. No doubt there was consultation with higher authorities, but ultimately it was the decision of the Org.Abt./Genst.d.Lw.

L.

[AndreasB]

Originally Posted by CJE

So?
How can we understand the "KG zbV" designation?
"Provisional for the duration of the war" :-))

To be honest, I think the clue is in 'Kampfgeschwader zbV'. What was the bV? Well, transporting stuff, rather than bombing places, which, when you come to think of it, is rather special.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that the crews of the Junkers were on whatever perks/status/etc. if any there was for KG crews, instead of JG crews (maybe an extra Pervitin pill a day?) They maybe underwent similar training too, being on multi-engined planes (guessing here). Was there much cross-crewing during the early years?

I really struggle to accept a translation as 'provisional' (German vorlaeufig or Aushelfs-?), since that mucks up the purpose of the formation with either the status and/or the expected duration of the formation, and the three are rather distinct items. Of course a special purpose maybe of rather short duration, but it may not be, as in this case.

But what do I know...

All the best

Andreas

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by AndreasB

I really struggle to accept a translation as 'provisional' (German vorlaeufig or Aushelfs-?), since that mucks up the purpose of the formation with either the status and/or the expected duration of the formation, and the three are rather distinct items. Of course a special purpose maybe of rather short duration, but it may not be, as in this case.

Andreas

Ever heard the French expression "C'est le provisoire qui dure"? Roughly, "temporary measures have a habit of becoming permanent."

[AndreasB]

German is a more precise language.

All the best

Andreas

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by AndreasB

German is a more precise language.

All the best

Andreas

Oh, absolutely. Now shall we translate »Nachrichten« as "news" or "intelligence" or "signals" or … ?