Halifax LL343 August 31, 1944

[ssg keay]

The only way to determine this is to find a map showing the patrol sectors of the Vorpostenboote. Also, those positions were not always accurate prior to the age of Loran or GPS. I am pretty sure they were set up in site of land. Danny

[Osric122]

Originally Posted by Wim de Meester

Perhaps I can add some useful information. That night two British a/c were lost due to action of the socalled VP-Flottilla Windhuk (VP2007, VP2011, VP2004 and M3234) which guarded the entrances to the Scheldt rivers at position AN8762.

RM72-217 reports as follows:
At 01.58 the Cdt of VP2007 reports that an enemy a/c flew in a direct line over his vessel at a height of approx. 200 metres. The order to open fire is immediately given and the foremost 2 cm gun (gunner Mtr.ObGefr. Baumann) was able to fire 8-10 rounds which all struck home. The a/c caught fire and crashed into the sea at approx. 2000 metres distance from the flottilla.

After the fires extinquished themselves the area was searched for both survivors and information till 06.05 hours. Then they had to abandon the operation in order to be in port before the RAF showed up again.

The kill was confirmed by both Schützenkönig (Strongpoint) and Westkapelle (Coastalbattery) which reported that an e/a was shot down by the boats on station.

The 4 ships had used 11 x 8,8 cm, 22 x 3,7 cm, 327 x 2 cm, 112 x 1,5 cm and 68 x LMG.

Indeed, on 5 September 1944 two bodies washed ashore at resp. Schelphoek and Westenschouwen. They were believed to be Canadian airmen. One day later a third body washed ashore at Zierikzee and all three were buried at the Haamstede cemetery on 8 September. In a footnote I have clearly indicated that these men could be/ might have been part of the lost crew but that it was not more than a possibility and that it simply can't be excluded as such.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Wim de Meister, Could you provide a clarification. Is AN8762 the KM grid location the location of the flotilla or the approximate location of the crash? KM grid is from the report on wings to victory crash 414.

[Wim de Meester]

Can't find the map quickly but AN 8762 is at the Scheldt river entrance/ estuary leaning a little to the south side area of it ( Knokke - Cadzand). As the crash took place within a few km of the flotilla it still must be considered the same grid.

rgds

[Sealander]

Slightly Confused,
when I read the Vorpostenboot Report they state that they were attacked
and the a/c returned. I think it is very unlikely that a Halifax on a secret mission decides to take a low level pass at a Vorpostenboot and makes a second run.
Action against shipping near the Westerschelde was undertaken by Mosquitos
that very night and one lost.
My conclusion is that the Vorpostenboot downed a Mosquito!
The Halifax then would have crashed not near the VPB but elswhere off the coast.
Sealander

[Osric122]

I have more information from the Raid Report of W/O Smith who reported the following:

5138N-0324E- 0200 Hrs. 600'. Est. position 5136N-0329E in sea - Aircraft seen shotdown in flames into sea (burnt on top of water for 5 minutes) by L/F red and green tracer. Some flares shot up from same position afterwards.

Assuming that W/O Smith - who was known to be flying the same route - saw LL343 I have a few questions for those who know about the Halifax V and the position of the crew members.

• If the plane was on the water for 5 minutes it seems reasonable to assume that the plane ditched with an attidute that allowed it to hit with a flare to keep the nose up. In a crash of that nature which crew members would be most vulnerable?
• Is it likely that everyone have been belted into their seats?
• Who is likely to have had a chance to escape and send up a flare?

All of this leads to an exercise of speculation but I thought the knowledge and expertise of the larger group might lend an informed path of logic to the guessing.