New Me109 Wreck Discovered. ** Some Graphic Content

[piero]

Originally Posted by harrison987

mmmmmmmmmmmmm...I am going to disagree with your comment.
Maybe you need to step back and think before you jump to conclusions?
Just a thought...
Mike

I agree
Giampiero Piva

[ClinA-78]

I agree with Boncazonk, that the greenish fluid is coolant. I was a deputy coroner for 9 years and have dealt with human remains is many different conditions. There is no anatomical reason for that color fluid to be related to humans. As far as a 'Farbbeutel', I have never heard of that being used by fighters. The fluid's appearance is definitely glycol IMHO.

OK, perhaps coolant (I never said it was human fluid), but I have seen this liquid also in ...a FW 190 crashsite whose pilot was missing (and still there).

I have personally found the (empty) bag of a Farbbeutel, without noting colored liquid (soil was quite dry), on another FW 190 (whose pilot was killed). And yes, it was individual equipment.

Up today, I have managed 11 recoveries (not for "business" or looting, just for historical purpose, a goal which becomes seldom... ) and attended many more but every dig brings more question than answer that why I ask.

Best regards

ClinA-78

PS : the comments about this topic don't surprise me...

[VtwinVince]

No, I think I'll stick with my conclusions, thank you very much. How about this: you're the family of the dead guy, and you get to see these Russians dig up your relative and play with his bones, all accompanied by tasteless music. Give your collective heads a shake.

[harrison987]

Originally Posted by VtwinVince

No, I think I'll stick with my conclusions, thank you very much. How about this: you're the family of the dead guy, and you get to see these Russians dig up your relative and play with his bones, all accompanied by tasteless music. Give your collective heads a shake.

Those are empty bones that his soul left long ago.

Sounds like there is a lot of Russian hatred and discrimination in your posts, as opposed to actual reality and rational thought.

How about this:

If he was a known Nazi who murdered 100 Jews before breakfast...and then shot down 2 B-17's killing all crew, including your father...would you care or be having the same thoughts into how the recovery was handled..or comment on the method in which they removed his ring to find his ID?

Probably not.

[Maxim1]

Originally Posted by harrison987

Sounds like there is a lot of Russian hatred and discrimination in your posts, as opposed to actual reality and rational thought.

Buehmann's body was literally smashed and dismembered during the crash. Russians in subject collected what they could and it was a really hard work. Now Buehmann's remains can be buried in his hometown with all respects etc.

But some mentally handicapped persons call it 'a playing with bones'.

What a nice joke.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by harrison987

Sounds like there is a lot of Russian hatred and discrimination in your posts, as opposed to actual reality and rational thought.

It doesn't sound like that at all to me, it sounds like a criticism of bad archaeological practice. I hope and believe that the majority of contributors here would want human remains to be treated with respect when a wreck is excavated and it's hard to see how your baseless set of "what if's?" contributes anything to the discussion.

[ClinA-78]

Gent's,

I would appreciate a reply (or a kind of) before this thread would be closed...

Thanks

ClinA-78

[VtwinVince]

Thank you. I am actually a trained archaeologist with field experience in the eastern Mediterranean, so, yes, the techniques employed here are beyond abysmal, in my view. As for 'reality', you'll not find much of that on the Interweb these days.

[Buz]

I suppose first and foremost any trained archaeologist with field experience in the eastern Mediterranean will find the methods used for crew recovery beyond abysmal. But we are not talking archaeology here, we are talking aviation archaeology, which is an entirely different beasty.

Unlike a dig in the eastern Med which is about learning, knowledge and understanding of the site, culture, and peoples that site presents, aviation archeology is about recovery, be it components or crew. The weeks/months frames that such an eastern Med dig would have (and in some cases the ability to close the site for later digs) don't exist for aviation sites, as quite often the dig will be restricted to one or two days only if you're unlucky. I have seen total destruction of an aviation related site, just to get the crew recovered, with no thought for the aircraft remains, or the niceties of archeology - except in regard to the crew. On the flip side I have been on a recovery where we were on site for over 3 weeks, taking our time and doing it right (well according to our archeologist "Almost right"). But at the end of the day the outcome was the same, two crews recovered and buried with dignity and honour.

This is Russia, as soon as that site was opened it became a target for people with less thought for the pilots remains. The fact the Russian team continued the recovery after finding out it was a German aircraft, and if reports are right have handed over the remains and Personal effects to the VDK for an honourable burial/return to the family, then I can overlook the methods used. They could have simply just tossed it all back in the hole and walked away because of the Nationality, they did not.

The Russian methods are crude yes, but they are doing the best with the tools they have, but on a plus note, look at the numbers these groups are finding and recovering from both sides in Russia. Maybe the Video wasn't what we are used to (but the Russians have different standards to our Western PC), but I see no desecration or disrespect, only the investigation of the available clues to try and make an ID.

Buz

[harrison987]

Well said.