An Historically Accurate Luftwaffe Aces Book?

[Franek Grabowski]

There is some perpetuating misunderstanding. Pilots (or aircrew) submitted claims, that following some sort of verification were rejected or confirmed, and they formed approved victories. Cross check against actual losses is completely different thing, and often with a big marigin of error. This has never been done officially, and never would be for WWII due to insufficient evidence. While cross checking one should take into account claims, victories but also those never submitted claims, if there is evidence. It is not unusual to find out that never submitted or rejected claims turned real, while credited victories unsubstantiated.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

It is not unusual to find out that never submitted or rejected claims turned real, while credited victories unsubstantiated.

Yes

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Yes

I noticed that phenomenon in The Horvaths' book in II/JG52 over Hungary, especially with Helmut Lipfert: he actually shot down several aircraft (in some cases, they were Romanian flown BF109s) but he didn't bother to claim them for try to follow them down. I was impressed that Lipfert's claim accuracy was close to the mid 90% rate (over Hungary, at least), and of course his War Memoirs are a great read as well.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello Nick,

Originally Posted by NickM

I was impressed that Lipfert's claim accuracy was close to the mid 90% rate (over Hungary, at least)

Yes, Lipfert’s figures for the Caucasus and Crimea also show a high % of credible claims. These aren’t always downed aircraft; sometimes they’re damaged, but nonetheless.

Best regards,
Andrey

[kaki3152]

But he will never be as good as Helmut Lipfert, who had a verification rate of 90% (e.g. Verified Victories Top JG 52 Aces over Hungary 1944-45)

[NickM]

Originally Posted by kaki3152

But he will never be as good as Helmut Lipfert, who had a verification rate of 90% (e.g. Verified Victories Top JG 52 Aces over Hungary 1944-45)

Even though Lipfert made jokes about being 'old' for a fighter pilot, it appeared his maturity and caution made his claims stand up to close scrutiny--at least over Hungary. Maybe earlier in his career he was more 'optimistic' in his claims, but who knows for sure.

[Nick Hector]

NickM,

A good source to check an earlier stage of his career, along with that of Barkhorn and Foennekold:

https://www.amazon.de/Drei-Falken-Lu.../dp/3869332484


The Black Cross Red Star series also provides much insight into claims versus losses in the East

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Nick Hector

NickM,

A good source to check an earlier stage of his career, along with that of Barkhorn and Foennekold:

https://www.amazon.de/Drei-Falken-Lu.../dp/3869332484

The Black Cross Red Star series also provides much insight into claims versus losses in the East

Looks 'muy interesante' but I will have to wait for an English language version; and it's set in Kerch/Crimea--what seemed to be the toughest, most intense part of Lipfert's career. Also, looks like there are more and more releases coming for the Kuban Bridgehead too; Tons of new material to read.

Thanks again,

NM