eBAy: Captured german planes

[RudiS]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/37377228646...QAAOSw4t9hey0C

[RudiS]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15467397647...0AAOSwZnBhey2a

[RudiS]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15467397809...MAAOSwfvFhey6e

[edwest2]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Not sure what you base your dates on Ed?

I don't think the two aircraft ever met before they came together at the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB
The X-3 was handed over 28 Sep 1956
The Ju 88 D FE-1598 arrived in Jan 1966

Cheers
Stig

I don't think so. The buildings in the background show them at Wright Field before 1955. A location with activities that have not been described in a single book
that I'm aware of. During the war, Wright Field received captured German aircraft for evaluation. At the end of the war, captured aircraft carried T-2 markings,
which translate as Intelligence at Wright Field. There was also the Wright Air Development Center which tested and developed a number of German developments.
A contingent of Germans that were transferred under Operation Paperclip worked there. Wright Field also further developed German ejection seats starting in 1946.
They also had an Engineering division. In other words, this was a highly secure location that was developing captured German material into then cutting-edge systems and aircraft.

If you have additional information, I'd like to hear it.

Best,
Ed

[Stig Jarlevik]

Fair enough Ed

However I doubt that in 1952-54 there was anything called Wright Field.
Wright and Patterson were amalgamated in 1948 basically when USAF was formed, creating a giant airfield.

What happened to the buildings we see after 1955?

My sources (Jay Miller and Phil Butler) says what I just quoted above.
I know Jay Miller and I believe his statement of the arrival of the X-3 is quite solid, meaning not before 1956 anyway.

The whereabouts of FE-1598 is more tricky and I have relied on Butler's data.
Perhaps you have an arrival date to W-P Field of said aircraft.
I agree that FE-1598 was tested at Wright Field, but according to Butler this was in 1943-44. According to him the aircraft then was at Davis-Monthan AB from 1946 to Jan 1966 when it was moved to W-P AFB

Cheers
Stig

[ArtieBob]

I assure you there was a Wright Field in 1952 as I flew in and out riding in a USAF C-46 that year and spent two weeks there in a training camp. Wright Patterson Air Force Base includes both Wright and Patterson Fields, which were originally Wilbur Wright Field and Fairfield Aviation General Supply Depot. I am certain the AFB is still an active installation today, although not certain that there are still flight operations at Wright field That visit was during the fighting in Korea and I saw a captured Yak-9 and was able to climb around an Il-10. I also remember seeing the Lippisch DM-1 glider and several derelict prototypes including XP-54, B-36, etc..



Best Regards,


Artie Bob

[edwest2]

Hi Stig,


Wright Field was there before it was called Wright-Patterson. At the end of the war, distribution of captured German aircraft included Freeman Field and a few others.
Everyone working in aviation, before it was called aerospace, wanted a look. I trust Phil Butler but work with then highly advanced aircraft, including the development
of what would become the B-52, occurred at Wright Field. Right after the war, if an aviation company wanted certain information, like translated German aviation or
guided missile documents, they had to follow a certain procedure. Certain information was highly compartmentalized by those handling the documents, and related
aircraft, missiles and engines. They had to make sure the Russians knew as little as possible while at the same time, getting this equipment and documents into the
hands of companies that would build the final versions.

Already, in May, 1946, a formerly classified document stated that development times needed to be cut from years to months since those working in intelligence knew
the Russians were working as fast as possible to develop, or just steal, developments based on captured German technology.


Best,
Ed

[edNorth]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

The whereabouts of FE-1598 is more tricky and I have relied on Butler's data. Perhaps you have an arrival date to W-P Field of said aircraft.

I agree that FE-1598 was tested at Wright Field, but according to Butler this was in 1943-44. According to him the aircraft then was at Davis-Monthan AB from 1946 to Jan 1966 when it was moved to W-P AFB

Cheers
Stig

Stig, this I know, exactly. And I have been there to it, twice!

.... "FE-1598 Luftwaffe markings and “Wave Mirror” scheme (09.1945 to 08.1946) - Was recoded T2-1598 in 1946 (*An Ju 88 with this number listed with the aircraft “planned moving from Freeman Field, Saymour Indiana to the old Douglas C-54 Skymaster plant, at Orchard Place Airport, Park Ridge, Illinois (later site of Chicago O´Hare International Civil Airport) near Chicago [09.05.1946] - Allocated and stored at Davis Monthan AAB Arizona by mid 08.1946 [Butler Warprizes; Freeman inventory 08.46] (Then not going to Chicago?) - Confirmed re-marked FE-1598 at Davis Monthan AAF, Arizona in 1950´s [Corbis Images /Jim Crow photos] - Aircraft became property of the USAF Museum 06.02.1958 and was delivered 06.01.1960 - Repainted for exhibit 28.07.1960 (it is possible the aircraft was not placed on exhibit until 1961 (Davis Monthan 1F14 and YY42 storage numbers seen on many of the old photos of “FE-1598” in Arizona and at Museum by MAY 1963) - Colour film USAFM Wright Patterson, Dayton Ohio “1958” (sic) [YouTube] - Repainted in patchy Light-Gray and Dark-Green “Luftwaffe” colours (04.1968) - USAFM relocated five miles from old Patterson site to old Wright Field site in Dayton 10.1970 - Repainted in bogus colours as “F6+AL” of 3.(F)/122 (Photos dated 03.1972, 21.05.1973, 08.1974) - Repaint “105” (Ju 88 A-4) of Grupal 5 Bombardament, FARR (Royal Rumanian Air Force) in USAF Museum 08.1984 - Current “The National Museum of the USAF”, Dayton, Ohio (2021)
****


In reality this was "Yellow 1" with FARR, 105 was a Bomber. An eight view profile of this has been prepared, as Ju 88 D-1/trop 430650 NP+MK and FARR "Yellow 1".
However I am looking for colour shot taken in USA 1943 as I want have my profiles more accurate re underside colouring.
Ed

[edwest2]

Originally Posted by ArtieBob

I assure you there was a Wright Field in 1952 as I flew in and out riding in a USAF C-46 that year and spent two weeks there in a training camp. Wright Patterson Air Force Base includes both Wright and Patterson Fields, which were originally Wilbur Wright Field and Fairfield Aviation General Supply Depot. I am certain the AFB is still an active installation today, although not certain that there are still flight operations at Wright field That visit was during the fighting in Korea and I saw a captured Yak-9 and was able to climb around an Il-10. I also remember seeing the Lippisch DM-1 glider and several derelict prototypes including XP-54, B-36, etc..



Best Regards,


Artie Bob

Thank you Artie Bob. I will have to find the photos of the DM-1 being uncrated in the U.S. I stumbled across these on a NASA site.
To this day, the formation of NASA and its ties to other, classified components of the aerospace community are little known.


Best,
Ed

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Guys (tip of the hat to Eggert!)

Besides Ed, are we not straying a bit from the subject?
When was the photo of FE-1598 taken?

I know nothing about what the airfields in USA were called generally, I am simply leaning on what became officially the W-P AFB.
If anyone has some kind of official document stating something else, please feel free to attach or advice me of that.

Oh, and William, if you saw the X-3 at "Wright Field" in 1952-54 can you please confirm that? Preferably to me as a PM

Finally, this has taken on a far greater proportion than I ever could imagine. I don't intend to do any further answer backs. Each one of you can feel free to date this photo whenever you like. I will do likewise....

Cheers
Stig