Luftwaffe Aircraft Loss Reports?

[Revi16]

Originally Posted by RodM

Hi Mike,

the six-digit reports that I ordered were referenced in the indexes on the fiches for November 1944 (# 5981), December 1944 (# 5982), and (mostly) January through to March 1945 (# 5983).

Having looked at fiche # 5985, this appears to have nothing to do with RAF BC in January 1945, instead it contains a list of personnel (name, rank, serial number) of the 20th Bomber Command USAAF.

The last verifiable time that I know the photo prints were viewed at NARA was early 2006, this from the EXIF data of the digital photos of photo prints that I received. My original photocopy order was probably made in 2005.

The frames (totalling 245) that I have copies of run from 131223 to 132742, all relating to losses in 1945 (I did get copies of some earlier frames for late 1944 for a colleague, but no longer have these myself).

If NARA had made photo prints of all the frames mentioned in the RG 92 indexes, then they would have totalled some 30,000+ prints (I see that the reports start in 1939 at around frame 101,400 and end in 1945 in the 132,700s. It was never a case of them making photo prints just for my order, and, besides, half the copies of frames that I obtained were personally photographed by a researcher.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the correspondence pertaining to my dealings with NARA or the orders.

The photo prints are most likely not indexed under Luftgaukommando XI.; it is just that I know this is where they originate from and were probably a part of a cache of Luftgaukommando XI. documents captured by the British in the closing stages of the war (this cache including the Luftgaukommando XI. KTB and an Abschuesseliste). I make this presumption because (a) a large LGK. XI. archive was captured, and (b) they are the Luftgau copies of the reports, and thus do not have a KE/J etc identifier, which was only added at Dulag Luft/Auswertungsstelle West, and (c) if the documents were a part of the Dulag Luft/Auswertungsstelle West collection, one would think that similar documents from other Luftgaukommandos would have survived. The British either captured the microfilm or the original photo prints.


I don't know if the following helps but I believe I made my initial enquiries of NARA based upon Box 77 in RG 242, Stack Area 190, Row 14, Compartment 5, Shelf 3. Box 77 contained a file (RG 242/1033) that had an alphabetical index of crash reports by crash location (this being seperate from the index by report type, i.e. KU/J etc).

Cheers

Rod

PS - Mike, an update - I do retain the original invoice for the six-digit frames (all in the 131000s) that I ordered, and they were all from Box 38, RG 242, Stack Area 190, Row 14, Compartment 4, Shelf 5.

Mark, thanks for the PM, requested high-res pic has been e-mailed

Hi Rod,

Do you happen to have an Entry # with the Record group information you posted?

RG 242/ Entry ??/ 190/14/4/5 Box 38
RG 242/ Entry ??/ 190/14/5/3 Box 77

Thanks,
Mike

[RodM]

Originally Posted by Revi16

Hi Rod,

Do you happen to have an Entry # with the Record group information you posted?

RG 242/ Entry ??/ 190/14/4/5 Box 38
RG 242/ Entry ??/ 190/14/5/3 Box 77

Thanks,
Mike

Hi Mike,

'sorry, the written references provided by NARA were not that specific...

Cheers

Rod

[Spurius]

Rod,
I understand that you have some experience with the German Reports on Allied aircraft. I am researching operation Gomorrah for Hamburg losses and wonder if you can get in touch with me for a chat.
regards Barry

[RodM]

Hi Barry,

in terms of the 1943 Gommorah losses, your best bet is to contact the RAF Air Historical Branch and request information on the specific losses. You can request information for up to seven files (i.e. individual losses) every three months. A simple web search will reveal the AHB contact details.

Depending on the information that you require, they can consult the MRES investigation files, which would contain any captured German documents. Please beware - you need to frame your request so that you don't ask for any personal information on the crew members, since the AHB is restricted by the Privacy Act eta al on what they can give out.

For example, for a specific loss you should list the date of loss, Squadron, aircraft type and aircraft serial and then explain the information that you require - location, time, and cause of loss as given in the MRES investigation and, if available, the same details contained in any German documentation, along with the report number.

I hope that this is of assistance.

Regards

Rod

PS - other avenues available are to isolate any RAAF, RCAF, or RNZAF deceased personnel on-board the aircraft concerned and then to obtain copies of data from the service files available in national archives of the relevant country - i.e. RCAF (in RG 24 & R112 at Library and Archives Canada, Ottawa), RAAF (in A705 & A703 at The National Archives of Australia, Canberra), and RNZAF (NZDF Personnel archives, Wellington, NZ).

[Frank Olynyk]

Rod and Barry,
I would add to Rod's postscript, that USAAF personnel lost on Bomber Command missions are usually noted in a MACR for that aircraft, with all the crew details. These can usually be found on Fold3.com, although there are numerous MACRs that they managed not to digitize.

Enjoy!

Frank.