The Eagles Over Europe Project

[O.Menu]

Hi Larry,

I know only one from L2+AC.

It had been published at least inside
"Osprey, aviation Elite Units Nb13, Luftwaffe Schlachtgruppen, by John Weal, p27"
and with a better quality inside
"Kagero Monographs Nb48, Henschel Hs 123, p31"

Cheers, Olivier

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I've obtained the permission of the buyer to show what the problem is with a photoshopped emblem added to an auction item, which is still listed on eBay.

Someone took a photo of 1./KG4 aircraft 5J+GH that force-landed and was written off in Poland during 09.39, and added a KG54 "death's head" insignia to the fuselage of this aircraft. I've got about 20 photos of the KG4 aircraft and NONE of them show the KG54 insignia on either side.

This photo from the EoE Collection shows this aircraft as it actually appeared at the time of its crash-landing.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-dBb...-dBbjwmC-S.jpg

The second photos shows this photo as it was recently sold on eBay with an authentic KG54 emblem, but added to an aircraft on which it didn't belong. In fairness to the seller, he claims that he had purchased the original photos from someone else, believing that it was an authentic. However, it is once again for sale on eBay.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-wsZ...-wsZrDm6-L.jpg

So once again, it is Buyer Beware.

[ouidjat]

Hmmm ... And the bump on spinner has been erased too...

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I'm trying to ID two Hs123 losses on 14 May 1940 in the general area of Saint-Germain, Belgium.

5.(S)/LG2 Henschel Hs123 A-1. Shot down by No. 607 Squadron Hurricanes near Saint-Germain (Belgium) at 10.55 a.m. FF Uffz Karl Lückel wounded. Aircraft 100% write-off.
5.(S)/LG2 Henschel Hs123 A-1. Shot down by No. 607 Squadron Hurricanes near Saint-Germain (Belgium)at 10.55 a.m. FF Lt Georg Ritter believed wounded. Aircraft 100% write-off.

There are two photos which may match these two losses.

1) One is on P.279 of Peter Cornwell's "The Battle of France Then and Now." This Hs123. landed on its wheels, is identified as down at "'le Gilbet' at Jausselette, E of Perwez," Belgium. This appears to be only a couple of miles N of St Germain, and is probably one of these two a/c. No code is visible and it does not appear to carry the 5 Staffel bear insignia.

2) Second is a photo of The L2+BN FL and captioned at "Gembloux," Belgium, that is about five miles W of St Germain. This plane wiped out its undercarriage on landing, and did have the 5 Staffel insignia and a fully visible code. The only photo that I know of can be found in the newly published "Batailles Aériennes: La RAF en France en 1939-1940, Part 2," P84 by Jean-Louis Roba.

These are very likely to be the two a/c in these two losses. I want to profile L2+BN for the EoE Project, and would appreciate any additional images of this a/c. Does anyone have any information that would confirm these locations, and which of the two pilots, Lt Georg Ritter and Uffz Karl Lückel, were associated with which Hs123?

Does anyone have any additional photo references or information on either of these two losses?

[GaraiB]

Hello Larry,

I attcahed the Hs123 aircraft photo
L2+BN from internet, ebay auction

Best regards,

Balazs

[Larry Hickey]

Balazs,

Thanx for posting this photo of L2+BM. The a/c is well known to me and will be one of our color profiles for 4 Staffel. This was an often-photographed a/c shot down S of Chaulnes, France, on 05.06.40 with Lt Siegfried Panten, died of his injuries. His grave is next to the aircraft.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, all

I do not wan't to contest your conclusion, and we should always be aware of the possibilities of trickery.

However - another possibility exist - namely wartime retouching of the photographs. I have such examples from my main area of interest where both insignia an callsigns have been retouched and thus removed before publication.

Since I have both versions (the original from a pilots photo album with all 'regalia' visible) and the retouched version where Gruppe and Staffel badge has been erased with official stamps and the PK photographers name on the backside one can easily be impressed by the quality of the retouching work. In other instances this has been quite crude and obvious.

Just a though I wanted to share, even back then a photo was not necessarily the full truth.

To address the two photos you show, Larry, they are to me obviously not from the same negative, as angle, lighting etc is totally different. I doubt you would be able to do this in Photoshop. See how the details are much more visible in the second one due to the difference in lighting conditions.

So - maybe the 'frauded' version is really the good one - and we have a He 111 with this insignia on. That would be kind of cool?

Regards,
Andreas B

[RudiS]

Hi Andreas,

I think it was a common practice for censors to remove all items on a photo that could lead to the identity of a downed aircraft of their own forces before releasing the photo to the public.

In this case however it's quite the opposite: a photo of an a/c that was sold on ebay whithout an emblem , was enhanced with an emblem and then a modern repro of this was made and sold again on ebay.

Attached is what I believe is the original photo sold on ebay, without the emblem and the enhanced version sold again as a modern repro.

Regards,
Rudi.

[JohnnyB]

Hi Rudi,

maybe, it was common practice to remove items - but was it also common practise to remove damages, for example to erase the bump on a spinner as ouidjat said already ? Only a tiny detail in the photo - but clearly visible.

[ouidjat]

And, Rudis explanation is interesting since ...

Did censorship remove details on negative? If so How can we have a modern repro WITH the emblem?
Did censorship remove details when printing on news paper? If so, how can we have the first eBay photo WITHOUT the emblem??

Maybe is too much complicated for my little head ...



Regards, Franck.