Operation Steinbock question

[Graham Boak]

In answer to the dig about colonial policies: the war between Britain and Italy was begun by Italy. The aim was the extension of Italian colonial rule. The results were the return of Ethiopia to its own rulers, and the establishment of local rule in Eritrea and Northern African nations such as Libya. In no case did any of these actions lead to an extension of British rule into areas previously, if briefly, ruled by Italy.

If you wish to ask whether the populace wished to be ruled by Italy rather than themselves (or the British), by all means do, but I don't think this is the best forum for such political discussions.

[Brian Bines]

Basic figures I have for 21/22 Jan is around 480T of bombs between 444 aircraft sorties (including Fighter-bombers and Pathfinders) giving av. bomb-load of 1.08T . File PRO WO199/912 estimates 27 bombers dropped 30T of bombs on London (av 1.11T each) and another 140-150 a/c dropped 230T elsewhere (av 1.5 to 1.65T per a/c.) The file continues '' Average bombload of aircraft excluding Fighter-bombers is 1610kg for Jan. 21/22 to 1120kg for Feb.24/25. These bomb-loads appear remarkably light but a large proportion of I.B's were carried reducing the average considerably''.

To expand on Remi's information 'K' reports give the following bomb-loads :-

Jan 21/22 He177 1/KG40 2x2500 kg bombs
Do 217 KG2 2xABB1000
Ju 88 3/KG76 2xAAB500 and 12 50kg IB's

Jan 29/30 Ju 88 3/KG 54 1x AB1000, 1AAB500 and 8x70kg

Feb20/21 Ju 88 6/KG54 2x500 HE, 10x50kg IB's
Ju 88 3/KG54 2xAB1000
Ju 188 5/KG2 2xAB1000 and 10 50kg IB's

Feb 23/24 Do 217 I/KG2 1xAB1000 and 2 AB500 (11 aircraft)
Do 217 I/KG2 4xSC500 and 4BC50

Feb24/25 Do 217 3/KG2 1xAB1000 and 2xAB500
Do 217 3/KG2 4XSC500 and 4xBC50
Ju 188 6/KG2 2xSC500 and 10xBC50
Ju 88 8/KG6 2xAB1000
Ju188 2/KG66 2xSC500 and 10x50kg flares
He 177 2/KG100 4x1000kg HE

April18/19 Ju 188 5/KG2 1xAB1000, 2x500HE and 6xLC50
Ju188 5/KG2 10xBC50, 4xLC50 (acting as Marker)
Ju 88 6/KG6 2x500kg HE, 10x50kg HE
Ju 88 3/KG54 3x500kg HE
He177 3/KG100 12x 250kg HE

It would appear most aircraft were carrying well beneath their quoted max.loads. From 'K' reports it would seem quite common for new crews to start operations with a lighter load than the older crews.

[RT]

I read carefully what I hv written, nd in no way there was any political view, I just emphased on the power of England at that time, nd in no way the fact to put aside Italy could be considered by the biggest country of the time as a brilliant performance, the biggest performance of England during this war was to hv been built a very powerful force of strategic bombers nd to hv accepted to pay tribute for that, putting the money necessary but also in loosing quite 60 % of the men manning them

Concerning the politico-historical aspect I hv nothing to return you, but it seems that the History is not beginning in 1935, the causes seems o bit older

Remi

[Nick Beale]

Some information on the Portsmouth raid of 15/16 May 1944 from ULTRA:

Total aircraft operating: 106, consisting of 38 Ju 188; 34 Ju 88; 15 Fw 190; 9 Me 410; 6 Ju 88 S; 4 Do 217. Also 1 Ju 188 on night photo reconnaissance.

Main attack: 69 aircraft (3 Do 217; 34 Ju 88; 32 Ju 188) dropping 6 x SC 100 Trialen; 29 x SC 1000; 39 x SC 500 Trialen; 250 x SC 50; 69 x BM 1000-105A.

Missing: one Do 217 of III./KG 2; one Ju 188 of I./KG 2; two Ju 188 of I./KG 2; two Ju 88 of III./KG 54 (reported as "battle losses presumably over England").

Somebody also asked about the strength of raids over Italy in early 1944 and I didn't reply:

The Bari attack of 2 December 1943 totalled 105 sorties.

Allied estimates of raids on the Anzio beach head in the first few days ashore were 50–60 bombers a night. Some of these were from Italian bases, some from Fl.Div. 2 in Southern France. Soon after the landings, four Gruppen were brought back to Italy from the Steinbock force.

The raids on Corsican airfields on 12 May 1944 totalled 115 aircraft in two waves.

[RT]

Many thks Nick, I ask for the italians raids, I reacted to your statement that they usually be around 100 pcs , so we must read that some of them totalled 100 planes, but gen. much lower, before landing in Anzio nd apart Bari are there any big action conducted by Luftwaffe in Italy from Sept. to april 44 ??

Remi

[Juha]

Brian and Nick
thanks alot for the new info

Juha

[Nonkers]

With hindsight, how should or could the Luftwaffe have alternatively used the 500 serviceable bombers they had in the west, Jan-June 1944, in order to cause maximum damage/body count to the Allied civilian and military?

Or was there nothing really different from OTL that they could have achieved?

[Kutscha]

Thanks for all the info guys.

[Bombphoon]

Here it is chaps - just got to wait 9 months now...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Blitz-O...7047719&sr=1-1