Photo Curtiss Aircraft

[twocee]

Presumably it was shipped to France equipped with its Sperry Aeroplane Stabiliser, where it participated in something called the "Concours par L'Union pour la Securite en Aeroplane" and took first prize, worth 50,000 francs.

[musec04]

Hi George,


Thanks again. Your response led me to:


https://www.helicomicro.com/tag/conc...-en-aeroplane/


Which presumably is the incident referred to in your first post.This proving the stability of the aeroplane and so winning the prize. Rather than my,upon considered reflection, rather 'barking' answer.


Regards,


Clint

[Buckeye30]

Hi George. Am I right in thinking the "F" boats numbered C-1 to 5 were the ones re-designated AB-1 to 5 on 25/3/14 ? ( "A" = Curtiss, "B" = flying boat).
If so C-2 / AB-2 made the first catapult launch from a ship ( BB USS North Carolina) on 5/11/15; pilot was Naval Aviator no.11 Lt.Cdr. Mustin.
Lake Keuka was Hammondsport NY. where C-2 flew under a Sperry gyro auto pilot.



Clint -forgot to mention the JN-2s and -3s were assigned to the 1st. Aero Squadron ( ex-Provisional) for the Mexican flights.
Nick

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Buckeye30

Clint. The JN-2 serial SC.48 was wrecked during the Mexican operations, 20 March 1916; it was fitted with JN-3 wings. They would normally have the very early insignia, a red star on the rudder.
( the caption says " on the Mexican border").
This batch was serials 41-48 but the "S.C." was omitted on the fuselage.

Nick

Nick

None of the eight JN-2s were accepted or paid for by the US Army.
To make some progress Curtiss accepted 19 Sep 1915 to rebuild the remaining six aircraft 41-45 and 48 to JN-3s. Since the wings was the only thing that differed, these six should be classified as true JN-3 from that point on.
As per Robert Casari two aircraft were destroyed the same day they took off on 13 March 1916 (no s/n mentioned) to fly into Mexico.
By mid April two more had been lost (again no s/n) and the wings from No 42 fitted to No 45 to keep the latter flying, leaving only three JN-3s in service.
No 43 was wrecked 19 April 1916 making No 45 and 53 the only two aircraft making it back to USA. Their "luck" was short lived since they were burned later in April, thus leaving not a single JN-2/3 in existence.

Can you by any chance fill in the missing gap for the remaining three aircraft when each one was lost, ie date vs s/n?

Cheers
Stig

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Buckeye30

Hi George. Am I right in thinking the "F" boats numbered C-1 to 5 were the ones re-designated AB-1 to 5 on 25/3/14 ? ( "A" = Curtiss, "B" = flying boat).
If so C-2 / AB-2 made the first catapult launch from a ship ( BB USS North Carolina) on 5/11/15; pilot was Naval Aviator no.11 Lt.Cdr. Mustin.
Lake Keuka was Hammondsport NY. where C-2 flew under a Sperry gyro auto pilot.
Nick

Not entirely

The C-1 was an E-boat, while the other four were F-boats.
The official US Navy's re-designation date was 14 March 1914 making C-1/C-5 AB-1/AB-5.
The AB-2 was destroyed 17 March 1915 during another catapult launch.

George

According to Casari the Sperry control "gadget" was taken out of the C-2 when it was delivered to the US Navy in October 1913 and was shipped to Annapolis where it flew for the first time on 2 Nov 1913.
He also says the C-2 was used from April 1914 to basically when it was w/o doing catapult tests in USA.
He makes no mentioning of any trials in France.
What was the involvement of the US Navy with these trials in France?
When did it move to France and when did it return?

Cheers
Stig

[Buckeye30]

Thanks Stig.
As I've found over time..........
41 = wrecked 19 March
42 = dismantled 15 April
43 = (burned)= 19 April
44 = crashed 16 April
45 = condemned NM

48 = wrecked 20 March
52 = force-landed 14 April
53 condemned NM
According to Lee Arbon the 8 (crated) JNs were transported by train to Columbus NM on the 13th then took off for Casas Grandes on the evening of the 19th with varying success; one returned, four only got half-way and three ran out of gas and landed in the dark.
A sign of future results.
Nick

[Stig Jarlevik]

Wow Nick

Thanks a lot!!
Looks like Casari missed the actual departure date in his book. The way it is written it is easily interpreted as the evening of the 13th.
However it fits great with a departure on 19 March 1916
The two which were caught out in the head wind looks like No 41 and 48.
Maybe the latter was safe on the 19th but crashed the next day trying to catch up?
Great to have the exact date when No 42 was "slaughtered"
The other two lost in April must be No 52 and 44
No 43 (according to Casari) was lost due to engine failure so likely to have been burned when it crashed.

May I just ask who Lee Arbon is/was? Name does not ring any bells sorry to say....

Cheers
Stig

[twocee]

Sorry Stig, but I have no further information about the French adventure of Lawrence Sperry and the nature of the US Navy's involvement (if any).

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by twocee

Sorry Stig, but I have no further information about the French adventure of Lawrence Sperry and the nature of the US Navy's involvement (if any).

Hmm, I see

May I ask, George, from where does the notion it was C-2 which was used in France?

The Sperry gyro was used in many Curtiss flying boats and it seems Curtiss was more interested in it than the Navy.

It seems odd to me that the US Navy should bail back an aircraft to Curtiss (and Sperry) when there were plenty of 'boats around at Hammondsport....

Cheers
Stig

[Buckeye30]

Stig, no. 43 force-landed near Chihuahua City and the pilot Maj. Herbert Dargue was lucky to escape from irate civilians; 43 was burned as a precaution.
Dargue was killed in a transport 5 days after Pearl Harbor, carrying important war plans. He had served on Corregidor 1912-13.

Arbon wrote a history of enlisted pilots in service, " They also flew, the enlisted pilot legacy 1912--1942". Very interesting story of a neglected group of pilots.
Nick