Junkers Ju 88, Vol. 3. Day and Nightfighters. Development - Equipment - Operations 1940 - 1945.

[edwest2]

"retreaded"? Seriously?

[FalkeEins]

Originally Posted by INM@RLM

Every day is still a school day.

I'll say....

don't understand your point 5. Or is your point 1 (as per Peter's statement) superceding post 44 above, which says 'Manfred Griehl established that the first Ju 88 Zerstörer Versuchsmaschine was in fact the Ju 88 V15 for which the airframe assigned was WNr. 0007, & Stkz. DD+IA' (as per the first entry in the table on p.10). Becker says the V7 (WNr. 4947) was 'ein erster Schritt in diese Richtung' (no nose armament but a solid nose). Nor do I understand why the captions on p9 & 10 are incorrect. P9 refers to a 'fast transport' with the solid nose, while p10 is the Z19. I'm not sure if I understand why CN+NR would be the 'first' fighter prototype - it was a modified/rebuilt A-1 presumably just off the A-1 production line, with no solid nose. Becker refers to U16 Umbau...or 'Sonderausrüstung' rather than 'Sonderausführung'...

[Peter Achs]

0096 (CN+NR) was the prototype of the Zerstörer, first called Sa-2 (Sonderausführung 2), later "Z", then C-1, from January 1940 in Rechlin, April 1940 1./NJG 2.

0098 (CN+NT) was the prototype of the recce version (Sa-1, later A-1/F), also since January 1940 in Rechlin and Peenemünde for tests of the camera equipment and ranges.

[Jukka Juutinen]

What were the results of those camera tests? I know these serial numbers are for some people the Holy Grail, but I'd rather have an extensive spinning test analysis on the Ju 88.

[Peter Achs]

You can wish for whatever you want.

The installation of the cameras had to be improved, i.e. with glass panes and sliders to prevent dirt and the cameras had to be heated with an oven (Kärcher-Ofen) to prevent them from fogging up, etc.

[INM@RLM]

Ref post #46. Thank you very much for this, Peter.

What I get from your contributions is:

1. 0096 was the very first Ju 88 fighter prototype even though it was never assigned a V-Nummer.
2. The photo of the Ju 88 flying test bed pictured with the forward firing armament protruding through the vision panels is indeed actually of 0096, CN+NR. (So the statement and caption on p.53 are both correct, but those on pp.9 & 10 are erroneous.)
3. Subsequently 0096 was retrofitted with the metal fighter nose and formally re-christened as a C-1.
4. The date of April 1940 for 0096 in service with I./NJG 2 is an impossibility. I take it that 1940 is a typo for 1941.
5. The idea that there was a Z15, Ju 88 V15, WNr. 0007 that was a Ju 88 fighter prototype is simply made-up NONSENSE. (This was only an engine development and similar prototype.)
6. The idea that 0096, CN+NT was used as a development machine during the evolution of the Ju 88 C-6 is ALSO NONSENSE of similar provenance.

I'm sure you will correct me if I have strayed here from the straight and narrow.

[Peter Achs]

1. yes, but maybe got a V-number

2. don't know what you're referring to

3. no idea, 0096 was in Dessau in March 1940 for modifications after the stay in Rechlin

4. ok, went to Z-Staffel/KG 30 as 4D+OH in April 1940, later 1./NJG 2

5. yes, nonense, these are different planes, Ju 88 A-1/0015/DD+IA was used for testing the heating and de-icing system, crashed in February 1940, Ju 88 V15/0007 was used as a engine testbed for BMW 139 and later BMW 801, had been at BMW in Munich since mid-1940. Z15 (W-Nr. 0363) was the 15th converted Ju 88 C-4 including the prototypes of this subtype.

6. yes, nonsense

The Ju 88 V7 never had anything to do with the development of the Zerstörer. Got the solid nose during conversion to a liaison aircraft in 1942.

[INM@RLM]

Brilliant - THANK YOU for the many clarifications, Peter.

Point 2 was a reference to the photo which appeared at the top of page 461 in Green: Warplanes of the Third Reich (1970) and here at p.53. (The Stkz. definitely begins with CN+.)

To your response on point 3 with 0096 being returned from Rechlin to Dessau in March 1940, that fits neatly alongside the first 'real' C-1 of the twenty being 0122 documented as delivered on 29-Feb-40 (in RL 3/2184).

Nice to have some hard evidenced facts at last, as well as stakes put through the hearts of the zombies.

[Peter Achs]

The official "Musterflugzeug Zerstörerserie" was the W-Nr. 0123 (VB+VJ). It was tested at Junkers from February 1940 and from March 1940 at the E-Stellen Rechlin and Tarnewitz.

[INM@RLM]

Another gem, Peter. Thank you.

I think it is safe to say then that one of these two cases applied to this aircraft:
either Musterflugzeug 0123 (like 0096) was never counted as part of the procurement order for twenty C-1s (because these were both covered by LC development orders and not by any LE standard procurement order)
OR
0123 was subsequently counted as one of the 20 deliveries reported in the Meldeliste but not until it was released following completion of the trials at Rechlin and Tarnewitz. That must have been in April 1940 since after that there is a one month break with no Ju 88 C deliveries recorded in May 1940.

One other takeaway from this is that these C-1s were being accepted as deliveries even before the Musterflugzeug had been successfully put through its paces at Rechlin and Tarnewitz.

That the preceding example, 0122, was the first recorded C-1 delivery to the LE still meets the other evidence that the identities of the first ten C-1s were all bunched closely together. (The Jan-40 Meldeliste notes "f. Umbau als Zerstörer sind ausserd. 10 fertiggestellt"