Photos 2-12

[Ruy Horta]

Originally Posted by wrackplatz

John is an author who's special interest is for example in Bf 110 and
Zerstörerverbände. He is one of the people "standing on the right side"
and before sudek started bidding at ebay he was one of the enthusiasts
who bid hard to get photos for their publishing work. Now he need not
bid any more because he has access to sudeks archive.
OK, I won't tell more because I don't want that my post will be
deleted again.

Wrackplatz,

First my problem is that you are anonymous, whereas the people you are facing in this discussion are not. In my book that leaves you personally clear of any dirt, but all others get dirty regardless how the discussion goes. That's one point against the anonymous poster seen through the eyes of a moderator.

You are not a first poster, so you do have an established alias, however you've also been involved in many if not all of these Sudek discussions. The same people come under your repeated criticism and attack and they have a difficult time defending themselves (which leaves the moderator to act).

My proposition (or chance) to you is as follows.

• You disclose yourself by using your real name
• We start a new and FINAL thread on the subject of eBay and Sudek
• We discuss this general subject in a way free of personal attack

If not I'll end any "Wrackplatz + Sudek + Author" accusations directly, first by deleting these posts and once I get fed up by suspending your account.

This is a fair chance, it allows everyone full room to manoeuvre and leaves the options clear to all.

On a personal note, I don't know Sudek. I don't know what or who he is (or more likely they are) and frankly I don't give a damn either. I am however concerned with the reputation of people posting under their real names in general and that of authors, historians and publishers in particular. Whatever their stance, they have most at stake by putting their names on the line. Regardless of what some may think, it is their presence which gives TOCH! an edge. Leave them out and you might as well all go to a Combat Flight sim forum (or similar).

Keep in mind we are all lucky to even be ABLE to discuss ANYTHING with people like John Vasco or Jochen Prien to name but two.

I have that in mind when I host this forum and I will act by that.

And you can see who the I is by looking at my sig.

[Von Alles]

Hello,
I am afraid that my question about Bf 109G with WGr 21 rockets was burnt in this hot debate...
Someone could help me : for years I was looking for the unit of these planes ?
Thank you again
Von Alles

[Jochen Prien]

Dear Von Alles,

the same photo has been on my mind literally for decades, ever since it was first published by the late Heinz Nowarra in the sixties ( if I remember correctly ). Yet I have come up with no clue at all so far. I have a vague feeling - but not more than that - that these a/c may have belonged to EKdo. 25.

So, I too would be very much interested if someone out there could enlighten me as to the identitiy of these well known and widely published a/c.

Sorr if I cannot offer you more than that.

Regards

Jochen Prien

[Kjetil Aakra]

Ruy, let me just say that I think you and your moderators are doing an admirable job with this forum. It is, and has been for a very long time, the most serious aviation history board on the Internet (sorry if that offends anyone, but I actually think most here will agree with me).

You mention that part of the problem with certain posters is their anonymity. I was just wondering if it could be a solution to demand that all register with their full real name, or alternatively, are requested to use it in their signature (of course false names can easly be used, but then you know the individual will be up to no good as such users will eventually reveal themselves)?

We have this solution for the IPMS-Norway board and it works fine, no-one can hide behind nicknames there and consequently there are no flame-wars or discussions disrupted by personal attacks there. Of course, this is also aided by a strongly enforced "no religious or political discussions", at least no current ones, unless they are relevant to our modelling threads.

Just a thought. Keep up the good work.

Kjetil Aakra

P.S. And to Edwest, never stop posting your ebay listings! You should have an award or something for your contribution to aviation history. Your effort is much appreciated, also by me!

[Brettas]

Hi,

With the moderator's intelligent participation, finally we returned to the subject that interests.
I, as a lover for the German airplanes of WWII, learned a lot as member of this site.
Mr. Ruy Horta, is really a very big luck to participate in TOCH that has as members, writers and important historians like Mr. Jochen Prien and other.
Hugs to all
E. Brettas
www.avesdobrasil.com.br
Bird of Brazil in Watercolor

[Von Alles]

Dear Mr PRIEN,
in Nowarra's book "Die 109", these planes are said to belong to JG 1, but this wing never used WGr 21 Me (according to M. MOMBEECK).
They had yellow underside wing tips : Luftflote Reich ?
The calligraphy of N° 3 looked like JG 51 and JG 53 ?
If you do not know, who will know ?
Maybe the original caption may help us ? (Bundesarchiv ?).
With my thanks & my respect for your works,
Von Alles

PS : yellow 3 was in the old Airfix kit !!!

[John Vasco]

wrackplatz,

If I may put you straight on a couple of things. The fact that sudek has entered the bidding arena does not stop me from bidding on Luftwaffe items, as sudek does not bid on 100% of Luftwaffe items. It is likely that not all are noticed, or are noticed but are 'passed' on.

Secondly, you do not know under what professional arrangement I entered into when I obtained some photos for inclusion in my two Classic Bf 110 books from the sudek archive. That is a private matter, and I will not be so unprofessional as to ever talk about it to anybody. So, I believe that you are out of order in saying this: "...he has access to sudeks archive..." That is an all-embracing phrase, which is incorrect. You know nothing apart from the fact that you can see some photos in two of my books. To put it into perspective, approximately 95% or more of all the photos that I have published and had published DID NOT come from sudek's archive. And I believe that that possibly goes for most, if not all, other researchers/authors. So the whole matter needs to be put in its proper context.

I do not take kindly to you making assumptions about me and my professional dealings with others, whoever they may be. Particularly when those assumptions are wrong.